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Filthy Rich 1

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Dimandja

Dimandja

Programmer
Apr 29, 2002
2,720
US
What does it mean?

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In Yorkshire we have an expression:

"Where there's muck there's brass"

meaning that despite the dirty conditions of, say, coal mining, there's money to be made for those not scared of getting their hands dirty.
 
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To me "Filthy Rich" is a term of jealosy, and implies that the subject's wealth is undeserved. "More money than brains" also comes to mind.

Tim


[gray]_______________________________________
Although not artistic by nature, I sure can draw a blank...[/gray]
 
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Filthy Rich" is a cliché of US origins. It derives from an analogy to being "filthy dirty", that is covered in dirt; thus one who is "filthy rich" is covered in money.


[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

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Altogether now:

The best things in life are dirty
The worst thing in life is coming up clean
Without a bean
The best things in life are filthy dirty
Chunks of gold, gold, gold!

From 'Paint Your Wagon' in case you don't know!
 
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While SantaMufasa is incorrect on the origins of "Filthy Rich", which does come from a translation of a Greek phrase, I think that he correctly frames the current US understanding of the connotation.

So as I stated in that other forum, yes I believe that Oprah could be considered filthy rich.

[aside for CC]You stated that you never heard of anyone describe Oprah as "filthy rich", so I did a Google search. A return of only 3 hits for "Oprah is filthy rich" and 3 for some other meaningful variation I don't remember.... It's a tough one to discern however, since Oprah has interviewed the author of a book named "Filthy Rich". Oh well, Google will only take one so far :) [/aside terminated]

~Thadeus
 
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Thadeus,

I'll show you my source if you show me yours: U.S. origins of the phrase: "
Word etymologies fascinate me, so I look forward to your providing a definitive phrase origin for "filthy rich". What is the Greek phrase that is the genesis of "filthy rich" and its early English usage(s)?


[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
 
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Thank you Thadeus.

SantaMufasa - It begins in Roman mythology with Hermes, son of Zeus. Hermes was, in his youth, the patron of trickters and thieves having stolen a herd of cows from Apollo. Later, he was forgiven by Apollo, changed his name to Mercury, and assumed the role of the earlier diety Dei Lucii - the god of commerce. This in turn led to the greek phrase, "filthy lucre", which is a reference to his past transgressions as a thief (filthy), and his current role as the god of riches and commerce (lucre). Lucre is the root of lucrative and the phrase 'filthy lucre' referred to lucractive activities that are based in lying and deceit. From that we came to filthy rich with the associated negative connotations.

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SantaMufasa,
I propped my statement off of CC's assertion in the other forum and some quick searches into the etymology as well.

Here are two non-definitive sources for an early use of the Greek term in writing...

Link One

Link Two

Now, I have to step back and state that filthy rich and filthy money are obviously two different things... I am not at all sure (regardless of my earlier assertion) that they don't have separate origins as currently used apart from their sordid past :)

I bow to those more adept at these things.

~Thadeus

 
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I think both of you Wizards are went too far and all it was originaly is rich people envy such a fortune and saying that riches had much money as they had much dirt.

I could be wrong.
 
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==> I bow to those more adept at these things.

It is by no means an exact science.

Good Luck
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Cajun Centurion said:
...Hermes...changed his name to Mercury...
Click to expand...
in that case he also changed his national origin. Mercury is the Roman counterpart of the Greek god Hermes.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard. [dragon]
 
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Same god tsdragon. The Greeks referred to him as Hermes and the Romans as Mercury.

Hermes
Hermes/Mercury
Hermes

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I think that's what I just said. But you said he changed his name from Hermes to Mercury, and that he did not do.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard. [dragon]
 
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From Hermes
In his job as messenger, he wears a broad-rimmed traveller's hat called a petasos or petasus, talaria or winged sandals made "of imperishable gold whcih bore him swift as a breath of air over sea and earth," and carries a cadeuceus or herald's staff around which serpents or ribbons may be found. The cadeuceus is said to be able to charm men's eyes to sleep.He also carries a purse (more like a money-bag actually....). The purse signifies his role as the Greek god of riches, trade and good fortune and the Roman god of trade, profit, merchants and travellers. He took over the latter job from the Dei Lucre, early Roman deities of commerce (from which, I suspect, comes the phrase "filthy lucre"). Hermes also changed his name to Mercury. Among his personal favorite commercial activities was the corn trade. Mercury's relationship to business and speed survive in words like "mercurial" and mercantile." Because of his speed he is sometimes considered a god of the winds.
Click to expand...
(emphais mine)
From Greek Mythology : HERMES
His dodgy dealing tactics were also passed down to his son AUTOLYCUS. Under the Romans he changed his name to MERCURY and floated himself on the stock market. See also PRIAPUS.
Click to expand...
(emphais mine)

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From Wikipedia - Most Roman gods had a Greek equivalents. The wording in Cajun's references make me think of "Hermes, the god formerly known as Mercury".

Susan
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." - Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson (1894)
 
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Thadeus said:
...SantaMufasa is incorrect on the origins of "Filthy Rich"...
Click to expand...
After having followed up on each of the cited references, I must say that I see nothing definitive that shows an etymological basis for "filthy rich" that refutes my earlier assertion. I can agree the source(s) for "filthy lucre", but I see nothing verifiable that transitions "filthy lucre" to "filthy rich".


Although Thadeus's "Link Two" (above) suggests a link, the author is making a self-admitted guess:
LinkAuthor said:
Here's a guess. Maybe it has to do with (the) expression: FILTHY LUCRE
Click to expand...
...versus a scholarly/verifiable etymology.

In fact, IMHO the two terms ("filthy lucre" and "filthy rich") are of two differing linguistic genera:

1) filthy lucre: obscene wealth (an inanimate object)

versus

2) filthy rich 2a. adj. Example, "Martha Stewart is filthy rich". (a [predicate] adjective) or 2b. noun. Example, "The filthy rich typically live ostentatiously." (a class of people).

We can, in no sense, draw an equality between "filthy lucre" and "filthy rich". Although the filthy rich may have plenty of filthy lucre, they are not from the same linguistic genus, and I believe their etymologies are dissimilar.


[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
 
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I would then ask SantaMufasa if you can provide a scholarly/verifiable etymology which supports the claim that "filthy rich" derives from an analogy to being "filthy dirty", that is covered in dirt.

I don't think filthy means covered. Filthy means dirty, and the phrase "filthy dirty" is a tautology for the purposes of emphasis. I find it hard to accept that from that tautology, filthy assumes a brand new meaning of 'excessive' which can then be applied to other nouns. Are there any other nouns that filthy, as an adjective meaning excessive, is generally accepted?

I find it much easier to accept that since we have a long and known history of filth, meaning dirty, with respect to lucre, that the transition from filthy lucre to filthy money (dirty money) to filthy rich is far more plausible.

This is not an exact science, and so its fun to consider various alternatives.

Good Luck
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