Fans Come On; Nothing Else! 1

[Larry424]

Hi, I apologize for the length of this post -- I'm just trying to get as many details out as possible to avoid wasting anybody's time . .

I've got a computer problem that is becoming a nightmare. Two professionals have looked at it and both have said: "I checked everything prior to the MB, and found no problems -- replace the MB," therefore, no tests have been done, but now I'm wondering why. Is it that hard to check it while it is still onboard and everything is connected up? I have no power beyond the fans -- would that affect the testing of the board? To tell the truth, I'm afraid it isn't the motherboard, at all.

I think it could be problems with the Master Boot Record, a virus in CMOS, or that the BIOS needs to be reflashed -- exotic, huh? . All of these are moot points since I can't even boot to DOS. Does this mean I am stuck with removing the board and trying it in a known-good machine. I ain't that good, guys!

I'm using: Win XP PRO / eMachines 533id upgraded to: 15GB HD / 256MB RAM / AMD Duron 1.2GHz CPU with K7SEM MB. The upgrade seemed to cause no problems -- the failure came 7 months later.

The failure didn't occur instantly, it took about 3 days to stop booting altogether. It would boot for anywhere from 10 seconds to 5 or 10 minutes, then the screen would start to disintegrate and form a loud, jumping, vibrating band across the middle of the monitor with lots of static. It would then lose it completely. A few times it came up to very dimly-lit CMOS, then faded completely and powered down to the fans.

I was using Norton security and antivirus, faithfully updated, and ran several scans along with several "trojan killers." Nothing indicated any problem, whatsoever. The computer was working the best I've ever experienced just shortly before the disaster occurred. It wasn't dropped, moved, disconnected, or hit with a surge, and I had made no recent hardware changes.

I first became concerned when my CD burning software (recently used, and working fine) suddenly couldn't finish burning a disk (even when adjusted all the way down to 2X speed). I tried the latest version of the software and promptly got a BSOD. Since I'm smart, I tried it again... I got the BSOD again! It rebooted fine and was completely usable for the rest of the day.

I also encountered problems with the Tauscan trojan hunter's opening of harmless execs when it performed it's scan. One of the execs was the installation exec for the Win XP Pro SP1 upgrade. This box ("would you like to install?&quot would open and was nearly impossible to get rid of. I'd have to click it off at least 5 times before it would go away. I also had problems with an exec in AutoCAD 2000. The program had failed to install (although I had installed and used it in the past). When I did a search on it I found 12 copies of it in Temporary Internet Files, where the aborted installation had dumped about 300MB of files. Instead of deleting it using Internet Options, I simply deleted all files and folders below the folder: Temporary Internet Files. Although there seemed to be no problems, I guess I could have deleted something I shouldn't have... it went bad on the next boot.

I personally think that trojans were opening those execs. I don't know what I think about Tauscan now, but I stopped using it.

Thanks for any help you might have.

John

 

[edfair]

If , as you describe, you only have fans, you are looking at PS. The hard drive should spin and calibrate without M/B. You should also get keyboard lites at power up.
Before you have CMOS problems you need a processor. And processors may need memory. May be the same for BIOS.
Sounds like you need to go back to the beginning and start another fault search. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[Cindy1]

Larry,
When you turn on your computer does your keyboard flash? If you take the memory out does it beep? I would strip it to the bare needs and take the cmos battery out for 1 20 sec. and see if that resets the configurations to what you want. The noises sound like a power supply. Keep us updated.
Cindy

 

[deejay33]

Larry,
I would have to agree with the otheres, it sounds like a power supply issue. I had a E-Maching too, and it had a cheap power supply. I have herd they are notorious for going bad. If I remimber right the 5331d was a 533MHz Celeron correct? I am wondering if the extra power required by the upgrades has worn the power supply down over time. That would explain the slow progression towards death. The part where you discribed the screen desentigrating until only the fans were working sounds like the video card was losing power. Same thing with the CMOS fading. This is all just a theory since I have not looked at it, but the PS makes sence. See if someone you know has a powersupply you could borrow to test this out. You dont even have to remove yours. Just open the case, set the new PS on top and plug everything into the new one. Let me know how it goes.

DeeJay 33

 

[Larry424]

Thanks everybody,

It'll be Sunday afternoon before I can get the computer back from the last guy who looked at it (out of town). As soon as I get a chance, I'll be getting back to you on the power supply. I appreciate your interest . . . hang on for a while . . .

I agree with everybody, the power supply is suspect. I got no spin from the hard drive, no keyboard lights, and no memory beeps.

Btw Ed, you jogged my memory, I recall an LCD on the board where the memory is installed, and it indicated that it had power, if that tells you anything. Also, the old memory (PC100) was reinstalled . . . possibly not good for this MB and processor? Could these symptoms occur if the ONLY problem was bad memory?

Even though I didn't disconnect anything, I did take the battery out, but it had no effect when I returned it.

Larry

 

[edfair]

Try disconnecting the ribbon from the hard drive and see if it spins.
Emachines power supplies are prone to failure, but they generally go totally out when they blow.
And it can be fun to find one when you need it.
You can buy a case/ps for 30 to 40$ and the last emach ps cost me 56. You might want to consider a case change for future compatibility issues. You'll also need a floppy and a CD since both have special covers for emach. And if I recall, the front panel connectors were wierd. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[drdebit]

I appreciate the additional info on proprietary nature of emachine.

 

[Larry424]

Thanks Ed,

I'll check the PS Sunday, and the HD. You're right, the eMachines case is moronic . I've had two eMachines computers with no regrets, however (other than the unbelievably bad support -- they provide no hardware information or driver upgrades). I love those prices!

More component descriptions if you need them:

Mainboard -- ECS K7SEM SIS 730S Socket A.
Processor -- AMD K7 3D 1.3G 1300Mhz Duron Socket A.
RAM -- 256MB PC100 DIMM CL2.
Power Supply -- ?

Larry

 

[Larry424]

Hi Ed,

I finally got my computer back, but I just don't know anybody who has a PSU I could hook up, and it's getting more and more complicated for me. I'm on a fixed, low income and can't spend much more on this machine. My PSU is a 250W AOpen (Acer) ATX-250GU. It's acceptable for all ATX boards and for Pentium 4 CPUs. It was installed (new in a case) during the upgrade 6 months ago. What I am considering, based on whatever you tell me, is:

(1) Buy the new Okia 420W PSU below and install it, maybe it will solve the problem. Keep my AOpen 250W, if it's good, for a tester. The problem is: if the MB is bad, you can't check the PSU without a load, can you?.
(2) Buy the cheapest MB I can get, put it on, along with the new PSU, and see what happens.

Do you think I could find used parts locally? The freight is really high for online orders. They had some new PSUs on eBay (420W, with no case -- can BUY NOW for as low as $17.00, but the freight is $15.00). A wattage of 420 would definitely be an upgrade. I would imagine a used one could be had for 8/10 dollars, but I checked "used," and got only one hit!

I know now that my memory is exactly what the board is designed for, PC100/133 Dimm SDRAM, so there seems to be no problems due to the mis-matching of components during the upgrade, just a component that no longer works.

I disconnected the hard drive ribbon, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by "see if it spins." When it is disconnected, I don't see or hear anything different than before.

Larry

 

[tmCCNA]

I didn't read all the posts, but I think it is probably the power supply. If it's not, then the next thing I would look at would be the CPU. Were the fans operating properly, are the jumbers set correctly(if it has them)? If your motherboard has jumpers you could have easily been overclocking the CPU and not even known it. Generally if you turn the computer on and you don't get anything, not a beep, words on the screen or anything, then it is a bad CPU, but it could also be the power supply. The first thing I would replace would be the power supply because for one it is cheaper, and two, emachines uses cheap power supplies that are known to fail. Travis McGuire

 

[Larry424]

Hi, Travis. Thanks for your comments.

There is a red LED indicator burning on the board near the memory slots. I think it shows that the RAM has power reaching it. If that's true, would it mean the power supply is probably ok? The fans look to be working perfectly normally. The board could be set wrong, I guess, but it worked fantastically for 6 months after the upgrade. The guy had just recently installed several identical boards, so I imagine he did ok with the jumpers. I ran better after the upgrade and the installation of Win XP than I've ever run on any system, using any version of Windows, period.

The PSU isn't eMachines, it's an upgrade to a 250W ATX, Pentium-4/AMD Athlon XP. It falls within the specs for this board, but it probably is right on the borderline.

I'll check out some CPUs on eBay and wherever, just in case that's what it comes down to . . . I'll let you know what I find.

I guess I'll also go ahead and order the PSU. I have to make sure it will fit this case . . . that should be fun.

Larry

 

[drdebit]

In case you didn't see this one
wheedoggy gave an interesting powersupply ref in thread602-473229

 

[BadBigBen]

I got a similiar problem with my Gigabyte MoBo...

After I clear the CMOS it will run for about 15 to 20 minutes with no problem at all... then it hangs or gives me a blue screen with the error message that a VMM file caused an illegal access... I reboot and it hangs with the same symptoms (ie it doesn't POST)... I tried a 420w PSU, different gfx-card, different Mem, different CPU, replaced the CMOS batterie and nothing changes... the CMOS gets currupted and I have to reclear it for the PC to start!

Greets Ben

PS: sorry I cant help here... thought I would throw that one in to see if someone could tell me more...

 

[Larry424]

Hi Ben, drdebit,

So even the PSU gets complicated. . . where am I going to find the brain power to keep up? .

I'm not too experienced at all of this, but I think I would try using f-prot on the CMOS. You possibly have a virus. I'd probably run System File Checker for missing or corrupt files, also. If you have an old, possibly out-of-date device, it might be causing a problem at the boot level.

I think I'm going to end up experiencing the same thing you have been through, that being an endless bout of "parts swapping." I have no test equipment or troubleshooting software. The worst thing is that there is no power to support any testing if I did have equipment! It's a real catch-22.

If I could find somebody local who deals in used parts and components, I'd just start replacing, and not stop till it worked, but it's tough to pay over $100 for a MB and Processer when you really have no idea if you need them. EBay is no longer eBay, used parts sold by individuals are becoming non-existent, and if you do find something, many times you will pay as much for shipping as you did for the part, and you're faced with even more shipping if you return a defective one, and possibly even more shipping if you replace it, hehe.

Thanks,
Larry

 

[minhster]

Have you try replacing the CPU? I know that doesn't sound right. But that hashappened to me once. Where, I have nothing but the fan. So, try replacing the CPU.

 

[drdebit]

Larry,
As far as your computer problem, you're over my head.
My computers are much,much older than what you're talking about, (which makes the used parts solution a little easier for me).

In my town, there are at least two computer sellers who have large stockpiles of used parts they sell, and I know one of them offers a short term period in which they will exhange defective parts. The people that have looked at your system might be able to direct you to someone like that in your area.

I've also started to see low end pentiums in the local thrift stores. Some of them get marked up pretty high, and many are proprietary systems, but sometimes there are generic ones that show up.

Garage sales and classified ads might also be a source of complete boxes you could part out.

The only reason I chimed in above, was that when you were talking about testing a power supply, the reference I gave appears to show a way to do that.

Hope you're able to find solutions to the problem.

Dave

 

[Larry424]

Hi minhster,

I think the culprit is either the CPU, MB, or PSU. I've decided to use the scientific approach. . . I'm going to buy whichever is the cheapest and start there . Thanks.

Larry

 

[Larry424]

Hey Dave,

I've found a shop that carries a stock of used parts. I haven't been there yet, but I expect it to be pretty good. I think it's the only one in town, though. I hope to be able to "try" parts and if they aren't what I need, he'll let me return them and try something else, but that might be asking a lot of him.

Yeah, I've started to see a lot more used computers, too. I really want to work on the older ones, but I've been tied up with the current one. I'd also like to take a 1 or 2 year course in computer repairing and upgrading.

I bookmarked the PSU reference, thanks.

Larry

 

[masterpease]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I have 3 ECS K7sem motherboards sitting in a box in my backroom. Overheating killed 2, low voltage power supply killed the other. Swallow hard and buy better mobo.

 

[Larry424]

Hi masterpease,

Gulp! Does that MB have a bad reputation?

I'm starting a poll -- please vote! Do you think the culprit is:
(1) PSU
(2) Processor
(3) MB
(4) User
(5) Neptune

Larry