Extending Home network 3

[Gavona]

I have a Linksys WAG354G Gateway It has an ADSL connection plus 4 wired ports and wireless. It is located in my study. That is upstairs but with a solid concrete floor and some substantial walls between it and my lounge. Consequentially I sometimes lose my wireless connection, and it can be quite slow.

I have wired connections to 2 PCs, printer/scanner and soon a NAS drive. I have a good quality phone line to my lounge so that the gateway could be located there instead of the stuy - except I would need 4 long Cat5 cables to run between the two rooms.

So I was thinking of buying another router/switch/gateway, connecting it to my Linksys with a single Cat 5 cable. I could either have two wireless signals - one from each router (no idea if that is possible to configure) or as I probably don't really need a wireless signal in my study I could buy a wired only device sand place the linksys in my lounge.

My questions:
a)does this sound sensible?
b)Do I need a router or a switch, or is a router the only option that would enable me to share my single ADSL internet connection.?
c)If there is little cost difference and it is easy enough to configure then I would choose 2 wireless routers so that I had a strong wireless signal anywhere in my house or garden. Advice?
c)Are there advantages to sticking to Linksys?
d)Any recommended products (preferably with UK stockists)


Gavin

 

[franklin97355]

They have a device called a wireless extender that you could wire on the first follr neer the wireless upstairs (so it would get a good signal) that would repeat the broadcast downstairs. You could also run one cable downstairs and attach a wireless access point there.

The answer is "42"

 

[wahnula]

Or try this device to amplify your wireless signal:

http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/wireless-range-extender.php

a)does this sound sensible? 

[b] From someone who has tried to connect two wireless access points by wireless only, the only way I had success was physically connecting one WAP to the other and used the second WAP with same SSID.  I would have tried the antenna first rather than buy a second wireless device.[/b]
  
b)Do I need a router or a switch, or is a router the only option that would enable me to share my single ADSL internet connection.?

[b]You need a modem/router to get the Internet to CAT5.  There is usually an integrated switch in the router.  Switches can be added to the modem device and then become Layer Two devices.  You do not need two WAN modems, just add a switch via CAT5.  Do not use a hub, make sure it is a switch.[/b]
 
c)If there is little cost difference and it is easy enough to configure then I would choose 2 wireless routers so that I had a strong wireless signal anywhere in my house or garden. Advice?  [b]Knowing my thoughts on how to connect two wireless access points (with a wire), if you go wireless choose a Wireless Access Point over a router w/ integrated wireless, as the radio is better in a WAP.  For best speed CAT5 is the only way to go.  If not, the closer you are to the WAP the better (without amplified antenna)[/b]
 
c)Are there advantages to sticking to Linksys?  [b]There is always an advantage to sticking with one brand throughout...when it's time for tech support they can't blame the other guy's stuff in the middle[/b]


d)Any recommended products (preferably with UK stockists)[b]I have tried many brands of router trying to get a good wireless connection throughout my office (double-wide trailer).  Netgear, Linksys, SMC, and D-link.  D-link had the most signal strength and they are my brand of choice now.  I had the lowest signal from a Linksys router.  Now that it's owned/run by Cisco I don't think Cisco's DNA was in the products I tested...although that was a few years ago.  I am going to get one of those antennas next year and do away with the second WAP...I hope.[/b]

Tony

 

[Nelviticus]

There is another alternative - power line networking. You buy a pair of devices which are basically plugs with ethernet ports on the back. They go into plug sockets and carry network traffic over your mains wiring.

If all your devices on one floor are near each other, you could have a cheap hub on that floor connected via power line to the Linksys on the other floor. It wouldn't solve the problem of having a good wireless signal everywhere but depending on your needs it may work for you.

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[Gavona]

Thanks for the advice. I'll post back when I have had a chance to consider it properly. Currently favoured options are:
1. A physical UTP link between a device in my study and a device in my lounge that provides a good wireless signal and also wired network capability (I assume that this could be useful for movies etc in the future - would I need gigabite + Cate 5e?
2. using a power line network (I assume this will give better bandwidth than wireless but not as good as wired - need to check)
3. Relocating current router and having lots of UTP cables going from Lounge to Study. Will need careful planning in lounge to keep it aesthetically pleasing!

Wireless range extender is interesting but I doubt if in my relatively small property it will give better results than a second wireless router and I would worry more about wireless network security (not a strong point of mine)


Gavin

 

[Nelviticus]

Are you in the UK? PC Pro magazine have just done a review of power line networking kit specifically focused on streaming video. The older power line stuff had pitiful bandwidth but some of the newer versions are much, much better. It's the current issue of the magazine if you're interested.

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[Gavona]

Off to the newsagents tomorrow then!


Gavin

 

[Avoura]

Some of the newest powerline networking equipment can run at 200 Mbit/s, which is faster than fast ethernet (100 Mbit/s). If I was in your position, it is worth considering, so long as the electrical wiring in your home is sound and in good condition. Otherwise I would consider a gigabit network, using 2 gigabit switches to connect the 2 floors to provide max bandwidth at all times.

 

[Gavona]

Thanks for all your suggestions. The powerline networking option looks to have great potential, e.g. Netgear HDXB101 200Mbps . Goodness knows how they can get better bandwidth down the mains wiring than one can down a specialist Cat5e cable.

A better aerial, as suggested by Tony, would probably not be the answer in my location (concrete floor etc) - without moving the wireless transmitter. And once I move that to the lounge I have 'excellent' reception.

if you go wireless choose a Wireless Access Point over a router w/ integrated wireless, as the radio is better in a WAP

I found it dfficult to find evidence of this. My gateway has 18dBm which seems to be as good as many of the WAPs that I looked at, better than some.

However, I have decided for now to go for a cheap solution an 5 port switch for my study £12.78 inc vat for Netgear FS605, linked by Cat5e to my existing gateway (Modem/switch/Wireless Access Point) in my lounge.

By the time I need better performance than that then both powerline and wireless technology will have moved on even further.



Gavin

 

[Drewsoftware]

Nelviticus and others offered the viable solution: Powerline networking. There may be another solution also, depending on your layout (unless I missed something). I recently was tempted to go wireless and spent a bit of time and money setting it up... only to realize once done that it would take me less than 15 minutes to simply run a 50' cable and hard-wire connect and cost me about $80 less.

I know that sounds old-school in today's wireless environment, but sometimes wired is best. It's fast, sometimes more efficient and less costly, and you don't have to constantly worry about someone trying to piggyback your signal.


---***--- Drew Software deals in Personality Management software designed to reduce employee turnover by matching people to the right jobs and improving workplace communications.

http://Drewsoftware.com

 

[Nelviticus]

If you go for the powerline stuff don't go for the NetGear - PC Pro gave it 2 stars out of 6 because they couldn't get decent bandwidth, although it could have been faulty kit.

Their award winner was the Devolo which you can get here. Alternatively, if you don't need 200Mbps there's a cheaper 85Mbps version here.

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[gbaughma]

There is another alternative - power line networking

EVIL! EVIL!

Besides, Maximum PC says that they ALL suck.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly exchanged his dilithium crystals for new Folger's Crystals." -- My Sister
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Drewsoftware]

I'm glad gbaughma made that point, 'cause I was tempted to mention that earlier and decided against it. But good point. Power-line networking has been around for decades. Ever since its inception, it has been pointed out that it is possibly one of the worst forms of networking from just a conceptual standpoint. Why?

Because power lines contain noise. Electrical noise. Lots of it. Very few businesses and even fewer homes have what you would call "clean" power lines. A second problem (although admittedly unlikely) is the concept that someone could easily tap into your power lines and have total access to your data. Then there are the occasional stories of a power surge blasting not only the network but motherboards to smithereens.

To be honest, I have not been following the "power line" technology as of late, so they could be doing all new things I don't know about. But gbaughma states that reviews rate all the systems as faulty... which is right in line with all the info I have to date. So suggestion: stay away from power line networking until all the results come in. Or at the least, be sure to do your research before installing such. Best to make sure of the downsides before installing any technology-- especially something as questionable as transferring data across electrical outlets.



-- Drew Software offers highly accurate Personality Evaluation software. Reduce turnover. Improve job satisfaction.

http://Drewsoftware.com

 

[Nelviticus]

Powerline networking is very mature now. I don't know anybody who would suggest using it in a corporate environment for a whole host of reasons - it's as insecure as wireless and you need a power socket for every connection, for starters - but for the home, it's great. Consumer electronics in Europe have very strict safety requirements so you don't need to worry about blowing your equipment up - they're designed to be plugged into a domestic power supply and have the necessary protection electronics built in.

In the early days of Powerline the speed was abysmal. Today, it's better than most ethernet in good conditions. Noise will bring this down but again the kit includes filtering circuitry to reduce this; in the PC Pro review that I mentioned they carried out tests while turning mains-connected microwave ovens on and off during the transfer and all that noise and spiking was coped with easily.

It was an ideal solution for my own home set-up and it sounds like an ideal solution for the original poster's as well. Don't forget to configure the security unless you don't have any other houses near you though!

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[Drewsoftware]

Thanks for the info Nelviticus. I always like to keep and open mind and learn where possible.

What do you think of this concept in an apartment complex? Since apartments conceptually share the same power lines (or do they?... dunno, I'm not a powerline tech)... would the chance for security breech increase and require special attention?



-- Drew Software offers highly accurate Personality Evaluation software. Reduce turnover. Improve job satisfaction.

http://Drewsoftware.com

 

[Nelviticus]

Unless you set up and use the security features it's almost as bad as unsecured wireless. I only say "almost" because 1) it's not open to random passers-by like wireless is and 2) Powerline is fairly rare so your neighbours are unlikely to have it. However, 'security through obscurity' is no security at all and as the kit comes with security features it would be foolish not to turn them on.

Having said that, I never bothered because I am lazy and foolish! I believe it's pretty straightforward though.

In short, if properly-configured wireless is secure enough for you then properly-configured Powerline should be secure enough too.

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[gbaughma]

Powerline networking....


... until the mrs. turns on the blender or the microwave.

Have you ever put an o-scope on a power circuit?

However, on to some usable advise.

1) Run the Cat5. I'm not sure why you need 4 runs; 1 run and a switch on the far end. <Shrug>
2) Set up a wireless bridge. Two WAP's, connecting solely to each other in bridge mode.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly exchanged his dilithium crystals for new Folger's Crystals." -- My Sister
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Nelviticus]

... I don't want this to turn into an argument but I'm replying in case anyone is interested in Powerline and reads this. Please note:

Powerline networking kit has built-in circuitry to filter out the 'noise' you get from turning on and off other appliances that are connected to the same circuit. The magazine review that I mentioned specifically tested for this.

So when Mrs Gbaughma turns on the blender, auntie Gavona microwaves her pizza or great uncle Nelviticus switches on his megawatt luxury reclining massage chair your bandwidth may drop marginally but your streaming high-definition video will not be affected.

Plumbed-in Cat5 cable is better - I'm installing some myself this weekend as it happens - but Powerline is easier to install and more flexible, since it moves house when you do.

Happy new year!

Nelviticus

 

[Gavona]

Gbaughma, I went for Cat5 + switch at one end and gateway at the other (gateway = switch, router, ADSL modem combined in one unit). However, had the wiring not been so straight forward I would have given the Powerline option a go.

Thanks again Nelviticus. I haven't yet got hold of that magazine - small local newsagent hadn't got any but should be able to get hold of when I go into town. Many of the reviews I googled appear to be out of date and therefore misleading. Shame that it seems rare to date such reviews.

I assume that the claimed 200mbps for powerline is shared across all traffic? Whereas my 100mbps cat 5 can maintain that bandwidth down each cable. Could be an issue for some (though not for my home network!)

I do find it fascinating that mains wiring can achieve a higher bandwidth than Cat5. Despite the lack of twisted pairs, shielding or wiring best practice based on maximising network bandwidth. (Though Cat5e can of course support gigabyte lan).

As for powerline security: Surely it should be possible for someone to devise a filter to insert at my consumer unit to keep my powerline signals from going down the wire to my neighbour? Then you could have better security than wireless.


Gavin

 

[edfair]

I set up powerline with my next door neighbor for comcast sharing with a 2nd computer in the house. My next step is to add another unit to share with me and potentially have both comcast broadband and bellsouth dsl available for both networks. We share a transformer and the signal path would be about 300 feet.
No issues have shown up. The neighbor has a full kitchen of noisy appliances and I haven't seen a glitch on the 2nd computer.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.