Even after 2 fresh installs of the OS on re-formatted drives, prob rem 3

[brit54]

...problem remains.
Good day,
OS=WIN98SE
I re-install the OS from the Microsoft CD.
The problem is that almost every time during boot the system generates a fault requiring re-boot. If I'm lucky and make it to the desktop, I then start working in various programs. For example Outlook Express, IE, Network Neighborhood etc. Sooner or later another fault is generated once again requiring a re-boot.

I'm wondering if the problem may be generated from a problem with my 'old' BIOS dated from 1996 (A shot in the dark). Am considering upgrading it but don't know where to locate the proper BIOS for my custom IBM compatible system.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

 

[WMH]

http://www.motherboards.org

is a good place to find a bios update. If updating the bios doesn't help, try reinsatlling the OS without any cards (use basics ie; video, SCSI if you have a SCSI drive, CD Rom). Problem may be caused by something like a sound card, modem, NIC, etc...
Even try different memory if you can.

Hope this helps,
WMH
MCP+I, MCSE

 

[jnicks]

It may simply be bad RAM or a failing disk. Before you concern yourself with the BIOS, the usual litany:

1. Check RAM and CPU (various aftermarket progs on the web)

2. Check Disk (SpinRite)
Or boot to DOS with the Install diskette

and run
SCANDISK Thorough.

If that much is working

Watch your screen carfully on boot and it may tell you information about the BIOS and with that you may be able to go to the maker of the BIOS and simply download an upgrade.

An option is to get a 'barebones' package.

For not very much you can get a new motherboard, cpu and RAM but with your vintage you may not have compatible power supply as things switched around about 1997 (ATX format with different motherboards and power connecteors if memory servers).

 

[crisc]

Can you elaborate on this "fault that requires a reboot"? Does it just lock up or do you get a BSOD?

Does "fresh install" = clean install, as in you reformat the drive then reinstall the OS? Simply reinstalling Windows doesn't always resolve OS related problems.

 

[paltask14c]

Bad ram is generally the cause.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q138788

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q150314

The only thing you have to know is how to find the answer.

If it weren't for users, computers would work just fine....If computers worked I'd be unemployed!

 

[brit54]

To: crisc (IS/IT--Manageme) Sep 17, 2002
Can you elaborate on this "fault that requires a reboot"? Does it just lock up or do you get a BSOD?

Does "fresh install" = clean install, as in you reformat the drive then reinstall the OS? Simply reinstalling Windows doesn't always resolve OS related problems.

Answer: the system locks up, no BSOD.
fresh install does mean clean install; the drive was reformated on both occassions followed by the clean (fresh) install of the OS using my Microsoft WIN 98SE install CD ROM.

Note also that the oldest OS previously on this particular machine was WIN95 a few years ago. It's been 98 since. Problems began perhaps 12 months ago when system was relocated within house and made an integral part of a 4 machine LAN on dedicated CAT 5 wiring through 3Com NIC cards and a Linksys hub.

This particular machine is a DX2 486 with two 1 gb drives (C & D),internal CD ROM drive and internal JAZ drive (1 gb) [that never worked properly - surprise surprise!], all connected on a SCSI chain.

PPS: The wife got this machine, so I am frequently bombarded with bitching that 'this machine NEVER works !'
Needless to say, I gotta get this puppy running so she can do her thing and get off my case

 

[edfair]

How much memory?
Will you part with 130 mb on the d: drive and put the install stuff on it? And install from the hard drive?
Memory is the usual cause, but I've also seen some speed related problems that a HD install bypassed. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[brit54]

Hello Ed:

In response to my posted problem on Tek Tips, you had asked the following:

edfair (TechnicalUser) Sep 17, 2002
How much memory?
Will you part with 130 mb on the d: drive and put the install stuff on it? And install from the hard drive?
Memory is the usual cause, but I've also seen some speed related problems that a HD install bypassed.
Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.


edfair (TechnicalUser) Sep 17, 2002
How much memory?
Will you part with 130 mb on the d: drive and put the install stuff on it? And install from the hard drive?
Memory is the usual cause, but I've also seen some speed related problems that a HD install bypassed.
Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.



Answer:

This machine has 65 mb of RAM, and yes I have about 500 mb available on 'D'. What is it specifically that you suggest I move over to 'D' (install stuff ?)?

It seems as though most of the responders to my problem have pointed to RAM as the possible culprit. Other than the usual boot up RAM check (which always passes by the way), is there another way to test the RAM for integrity ?

Here's the link to my original post and answers todate:

http://www.tek-tips.com//viewthread...15&sqid=361391&CFID=87093280&CFTOKEN=85068655

Regrettably I have a physical disability now (MS) that prevents me from performing any hands-on activity inside the case. It seems to me that at the very least the RAM chips should be shuffled amongst their slots - any thoughts ?

Peter Earnshaw
Tucson, AZ
(520) 749-5900

 

[edfair]

I usually create a directory w98sein and a sub under that win98 to keep the files in somewhat the same order they are in on the CD, then copy from the CD setup.* to \w98sein and from CD\win98 to w98sein\win98. Then install from w98sein.
The separation is overkill , but it helps keep the path clear in my mind. I normally put the install stuff on a separate drive.
This will install from that directory to the standard install directory, but it does it about 3 times as fast, plus you never need the CD again for 98 upgrades.
If your boot floppy calls himem.sys, there is a built in memory test there. But it won't show all failures.
I agree about the memory. One of the things I would suggest is reseating it all , basically working the chips almost to seat location a dozen or so times before latching it in place. This will help the contacts seat through any corrosion on the contacts. You might also reseat the processor several times. And although I say you should, I mean whoever helps. I know it is frustrating. I spent 5 weeks getting a system up for DSL because of a memory problem, so I've been there. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[tviman]

If the problem started when the machine became part of a lan, I think I'd be looking at the NIC card. I always keep a couple on hand because of this. One other thing to look at (as if you don't have enough to do) is the CAT5 cabling. Pay attention to it's physical path from the machine to the hub. Keep it away from any power supplys, transformers, televisions, and especially flourescent lights! I did a troubleshoot for a school - one of their PC's was going through boot problems. Traced it to the network cable in the ceiling that was draped directly over a flourescent fixture! Moved the cable and voila! There's always a better way...

 

[wolluf]

Hesitate to enter this thread - but..

If its a 486, why put win98 on it (pushing it). Did win95 work ok (what do you need from win98 that's not on win95?).

 

[brit54]

To: wolluf (TechnicalUser) Sep 20, 2002
you said:
Hesitate to enter this thread - but..

If its a 486, why put win98 on it (pushing it). Did win95 work ok (what do you need from win98 that's not on win95?).
Answer:
This older PC is part of a 4 PC LAN and for consistency all 4 use the same OS WIN 98SE.
However, your comment is quite valid and I sincerely appreciate it.
Regards,
Peter Earnshaw

 

[jnicks]

Ram checking

I found DocMem and ran a quick test. Seems OK

http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docfeat.asp

It seeme to be a good job, it runs in DOS, which is one clue that they are serious about getting to as much memory as possible.

It loops through many times, so be prepared to run it overnight.

 

[brit54]

To: Ed Fair & jnicks

Thank you both for your help. I have done the following:

1. reseated the existing 2 RAM cards in their slots, and also swapped them between their slots as well.

2. Removed and reseated the 486 processor chip.

3. Removed the NIC card and re-seated it in a different adjacent available bay.

3. Reviewed available replacement SIMM RAM at OEMPCWORLD.COM with the intent of buying 4 32mg SIMMs to both replace and increase to max capacity the RAM in this older PC. (All 4 slots instead of 2).

4. Downloaded and made a bootable diskette with 'Docmem20.exe' from

http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docfeat.asp

5. After reconnecting the PC to it's various periferals and other needed hardware, tonight will start up PC normally to see what effect if any the reseating of the RAM, processor and NIC had on the performance of the machine. If the problem persists and I still get the fatal errors, then I will insert the diskette and run the SIMM memory tester.

6. If necessary, I will also run Spinrite from a DOS prompt (and SCANDISK) to check the condition of the hard disk, but I doubt that that is the problem. (I first have to get a fresh copy of the program from Steve Gibson (GRC.com), as I lost my first copy when reformatting the drive a few months ago.)

7. If after doing all the above I still have a problem, then I'll examine and attempt to upgrade the 1996 BIOS on the system from

http://www.motherboards.org.

This step may be tricky as there is limited information viewable in DOS during boot regarding the BIOS, and I believe that you can easily get into trouble if installing the wrong type of BIOS.

Many thanks to all of you for your help so far.
Wish me luck tonight guys !
Regards,
Peter Earnshaw

 

[brit54]

Gentlemen:

It is now 8 pm in the evening, and we have spent the entire day attempting to seat the RAM modules properly; we kept getting the constant beeping triggered by the BIOS whenever we tried to turn on the PC. The constant beeping is either caused by a RAM fault or a video RAM fault. We ultimately discovered that the locking pin tabs at either end of the RAM slots for slots 1 & 2 had somehow become damaged preventing the RAM module cards from being locked properly into place. We exchanged the locking tabs with unused tabs from the empty bays 3 & 4; this then allowed us to properly seat the RAM modules in bays 1 & 2 and lock them in place. The subsequent PC start was finally beep error free, but we had apparently inadvertently created another problem. No video !

We had moved the video card, NIC card and sound card to different bays (in an attempt to preclude the NIC card from contributing to our original fatal errors - in order to move the NIC we had to also move the video and sound cards due to the narrow space originally left for the unused PCI slot - we had to get the video and sound cards out of the way). This was all achieved error free - or so we think.

Once the RAM seating problem was resolved, the absence of video display became evident. At this point we returned the 3 cards (video, NIC and sound)to their original slots. No change - still no display. We then checked the obvious, connections from monitor to video card and monitor to power source. Everything seemed to be in order. The monitor power switch light always came on (green) when we powered up the PC, but shortly thereafter went into standby mode (amber).

Listening to the PC it sounded as though it were going through the boot sequence, but never seemed to reach the desktop (no windows sound). I then tried to boot to a DOS prompt with a startup disk in A without success. Now I began to think that early in the boot process it was not seeing the SCSI chain and hence none of the drives. I checked the SCSI chain strip cable connections and they all appeared intact. I visibly checked inside the case for any other possible connections that may have inadvertently been dislodged. Nothing was apparently wrong.

I am now at a standstill and need some suggestions please. Somehow, someway I screwed up the video display; but how ?
How frustrating to come so close to being able to continue my RAM trouble shooting, only to be halted by no more video ! For all I know my RAM problems and fatal errors have been resolved by reseating the RAM (multiple times) and CPU (3 times), but until I can 'see' again, I won't know!

Peter Earnshaw

 

[edfair]

Two possibilities as I see it. That memory has totally failed, but you need to pull the memory to see if missing memory will beep, some will , some won't, or the video has died.
The lights on the monitor are normal for a failed video card but are also normal for failed boot up sequence if the failure is before video is set up. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.