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ESE Backup , How does this run 3

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1DMF

1DMF

Programmer
Jan 18, 2005
8,795
GB
Hello,

I have been having problems getting our Brightstor ArcServe backup to run, It appears that something was putting the exchange store in a state and causing the backup to hang.

The event viewer showed that at that exact same time ESE Defrag & ESE Backup started.

I have not set either of these processes to run, so what has?

I noticed that at the same time this happened was when the SBS Server Report was generated via scheduled tasks.

Is this the culprit? if so does it have to do a backup of exchange to create its data and also where is this backup being saved? , I already backup exchange and this self run backup is redundant and useless, is it possible to turn it off?

I'm a little confused what is running thess ESE processes or why and what I can and can't (or shouldn't) switch off.

All help appreciated.

1DMF

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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Check out this posting for comments about ArcServe on SBS:

If it's running at the same time as the SBS Server Report, which is at 6:00am by default (4:30am for data collection), then you have your backup starting too late. If possible, it should start about about 11:00pm in order to not conflict with other processes. If it's taking longer than 4 hours for the backup to complete you may have other issues that need to be attended to.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy
 
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Thanks for the reply, I was starting my Backup job @ 22:00, I've now changed it to 21:00 and recheduled the server report to run @ 7:30 and today I got a successful backup.

regards,
1DMF.

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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That sounds like a very long time for backup. Make sure that your antivirus program isn't causing delays by scanning things it doesn't need to be scanning. This can slow down the backup process.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy
 
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I only run a scan every sunday when a backup doesn't run and I have excluded all the folders required for Norton to work properly, so this wasn't the problem, I am doing a full DB backup, Mailbox level (brick) and document level, hence it taking a little while.

However I've had enough of the appauling Customer Service that Symantec give and am now switching to Sophos, so I might be back with more problems :)

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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brick level = evil. Backup the Information Store so that the logs are flushed. You shouldn't need to do brick level. Ever.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -
 
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why not? if I have a mail box go down on me I can restore just that mailbox.

If i have a server go down I can do a database restore

and if i have an email go missing i can do a document level restore.

we are regulated by the FSA , disaster recovery is paramount, if that doesn't cover all bases i don't kow what does!

we also have a third party company that archives every email ever sent or received in line with sarbanes oxly -> now thats what I call a water tight backup procedure :)

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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brick level is not for disaster recovery. In fact, it will fail miserably in a true disaster. And you can almost always configure your server to not require doing a restore except in a disaster recovery scenario.

DIRT covers the user deleting an object in their mailbox.
Mailbox retention covers an accidentally deleted mailbox.

With brick level, you lose true disaster recovery. You increase the space it takes on tape/disk due to the loss of SIS (which increases wear/tear on your hardware for the longer backups). You don't flush the logs with brick level, either.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -
 
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DIRT covers the user deleting an object in their mailbox.
Mailbox retention covers an accidentally deleted mailbox.

With brick level, you lose true disaster recovery. You increase the space it takes on tape/disk due to the loss of SIS (which increases wear/tear on your hardware for the longer backups). You don't flush the logs with brick level, either.
Click to expand...

You've lost me there what is DIRT, what is Mailbox retention.

How do either of those stop a corruption?

how do I loose true disaster recovery with brick, DB & document level combined?

The tape is bigger than our hard drive so it ain't ever gonna fill up the tape. (whats SIS?)

The hardware is covered by maintenance, if it breaks it gets replaced with a new piece, the data is more important that the hardware.

And what logs should be flushed? are these logs flushed with document level backup? or database level backup?





"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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DIRT = Deleted Item Retention Time. The amount of time a user can recover their own email.

Mailbox Retention is how long a deleted mailbox is available to be reconnected to a user account

Brick Level does not allow a full db restore. And it does not flush the transaction logs. They are flushed when an Information Store backup is successfully completed. You would need them to do a restore to the point of failure.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -
 
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Oh - and SIS is Single Instance Store. Let's say you send 100 people in your company an email with a 20MB attachment. In many email applications, that would mean the email server has 100x20MB, or 2GB. Exchange holds just a single copy of the message, and everyone sees it. Once the last person deletes it out of their mailbox, the server deletes the one copy.

With brick level, you backup a copy of that email in every mailbox. So - that 20MB is now taking 2GB of tape space. Which means it's taking longer for the backup to occur since you're backing up more data than you need to.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -
 
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Thanks for the reply, I was under the impression that the CA plugin dealt with SIS when backing up exchange.

Either way I haven't had a problem with the tape filling up but I shall certainly bare that in mind for future reference should I run into such a problem.

With only having a 100gig hard drive and a 200gig LTO Ultrium drive, I would notice the server run out of disk space before the tape did :)

I shall have to look into the DIRT/MR options, I don't ever delete user accounts to ensure that the mailbox is always kept, being SBS the two are linked. I just set the logon hours to NEVER!, plus the password will have expired for those who leave!

Again thanks for the info.





"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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I wonder why you are using BrightStore to begin with... are there features that you think it provides which the built-in SBS Backup doesn't?

Because by not using the built-in backup, you haven't run the backup wizard which would automatically configure DIRT for you. Additionally the built-in backup makes it pretty easy. (see for details)

In any case, you can modify the DIRT quite easily from the Backup snapin of the Server Management Console by clicking on the "Modify Storage for Deleted Files and E-mail" link. This wizard will also ensure that you have Volume Shadow Snapshot service properly configured so that users can recover their own deleted documents and folders.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy
 
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I always use fully fledged backup software, I was not aware the standard SBS NTBackup can resore @ document level, also we have SQL which Brighstor has a special plugin to backup up SQL also.

On top of which we have maintenance with CA and i'd rather deal with CA than Microsoft, CA have 1st class support, out of all support i've ever had CA is the best in the world in my opinion, at affordable prices too!

as for VSS, I already have this running and it works very well, great little addition to the windows server, for once you can now recover network mapped drive files, what a god send!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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To backup SQL with SBS's NTBackup, you just need to make sure that the database has a maintenance plan configured to create a backup. Generally this would default to back up in the same directory, which is fine because the SBS Nightly backup would then pick up that file making it easy to restore.

I've deployed over 100 SBS's in the past few years and we use the built-in backup for all. Haven't had one issue with it.

I wonder when the last time you dealt with Microsoft's Small Business Server team for support, because honestly, they're awesome. Most of my clients use the Small Business + subscription.

Although it may sound like it, I'm not trying to sell you on anything... I just always wonder why folks spend money for things which are already provided by SBS. Often I find out that it's because "that's the way I've always done it"... even though there are other good options that don't cost as much.



Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy
 
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Well I guess it's horses for courses, my missus is also in IT and manages a cluster with over 70 users, she uses Backup Exec.

The server support guys who supplied our kit and hers would never recommend using NT backup for anything, and they are MS partners and HP authorised builders.

Most people in IT i've spoke with use bespoke software be it backup exec, brightstor, tivoli etc... you are the first i've come across who beleives NT Backup is better.

When I find NT Backup keeps failing at home on my XP machine and that isn't mission critical!

I've dealt with Microsoft in the past and it left a bitter taste in my mouth , I won't ever deal with them again, i'd rather pay CA money and deal with them than ever concidering dealing direct with MS.

It's not because i've always done it that way it because of first hand personal experience, and nothing anyone can say will change those facts.

And seings CA maintenance is only £120 per year, hardly breaking the bank for such fantastic support!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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I don't think I'd say it's better than anything else. I've deployed and managed at least as many SBS boxes as TechSoEasy, and also find it quite sufficient for many tasks.

I disagree with you on the Microsoft tech support. I've always found them quite helpful. They've never NOT been able to resolve a problem, even in some fairly complex environments.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -
 
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how so, it's windows 2003 server, exchange 2003 and SQL server 2000 , linked together in one package, with a limited number of users and only 1 PDC.

how is backing up SBS 2003 Exchange Server different from backing up 2003 Exchange Server?

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
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