ESE Backup , How does this run 3

[1DMF]

Hello,

I have been having problems getting our Brightstor ArcServe backup to run, It appears that something was putting the exchange store in a state and causing the backup to hang.

The event viewer showed that at that exact same time ESE Defrag & ESE Backup started.

I have not set either of these processes to run, so what has?

I noticed that at the same time this happened was when the SBS Server Report was generated via scheduled tasks.

Is this the culprit? if so does it have to do a backup of exchange to create its data and also where is this backup being saved? , I already backup exchange and this self run backup is redundant and useless, is it possible to turn it off?

I'm a little confused what is running thess ESE processes or why and what I can and can't (or shouldn't) switch off.

All help appreciated.

1DMF

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[ShackDaddy]

It's no different. NTBACKUP is as good as anything else when you are backing up a SINGLE SERVER. The other products come into their value when you are backing up a multi-server environment. For a single server, I don't know that any other non-imaging backup product has a feature that NTBACKUP can't come close to duplicating. Combining Recovery Storage Groups with the features that 58sniper mentioned (SIS, DIRT, etc), they make brick-level backups absolutely unnecessary.

And all those features exist on Exchange 2003 outside of the SBS environment, you just need to know how to set them, since there isn't a wizard.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

SBS is different... but only BECAUSE it's all in one box. You might want to read an article I wrote about this recently:

http://techsoeasy.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!AB2725BC5698FCB8!156.entry

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[1DMF]

well as far as i'm concerned if it was that good it would be available through the menu or desktop icon and not be hidden away where you have to type NTBACKUP in the run box or use DOS style command line with switches.

Forget that milarky, CA Brightstor all the way for me

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

What on earth are you looking at? There's a Backup Snap-in right there in the Server Management Console's Main display! Just as all of the other SBS tools are.

It's easily configured with the Backup Wizard.

Don't start making stuff up! ;-)

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[1DMF]

Server Management Console's

the what?

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

The Server Management Console... it's where you should be configuring and managing your entire server from!

By default it should open when you log onto the server unless you've removed it from the Startup folder.

Otherwise, it should be the icon on the very top left of your Start menu.

If you haven't been using this, its no wonder you are having problems with your server.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[1DMF]

oh that thing i close everytime I log onto the server, I don't use that except for configuring policies, and all it does is run the MMC snap in tool anyway, so what's the point.

I prefer to use the proper tool for the job, not some half baked , poor excuse for a GUI, I use SQL Enterprise manager to configure SQL , AD for users, IIS for websites, etc.. just like anyone else with Windows servers, the only pain with SBS is its poor excuse for Exchange system manager because of the way the User accounts and Exchanged are inter linked.

Again horses for courses I guess, what ever you're comfortable with, can't get on with the Server Management tool.

And i'm not having problems with the server, I was having problems identifying what process was running causing a conflict, which I managed to work out and provide a working solution.

our server runs fine, and always has.



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

all it does is run the MMC snap in tool anyway, so what's the point.

That's where you are entirely wrong. It's not horses for courses... or whatever. SBS is a PRE-CONFIGURED server that has items included that you would NEVER put together in a stand-alone server environment. The ONLY way to keep those things working well together is to use the tools provided by SBS, unless your main goal is job security and you want to spend the majority of your time troubleshooting your server. But in the real world, SBS's don't need that kind of attention.

If the server's working fine for you then great... you're apparently not seeing the benefits that you could have if you used it more to the way it was designed though. Your complaint about the Exchange System Manager reveals this a bit... which goes back to my point about how all things in SBS must stay synchronized just like a fine watch.

If you didn't read the article I linked above, I'd really suggest that you peruse this paper -- it'll only take a few minutes:

http://sbsurl.com/itpro

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[1DMF]

I guess thats the problem when you get given a role without training and you apply your existing knowledge nad learn by the seat of your pants.

I'm not sure what MS was trying to acheive by making SBS so different to other windows 2003 server environments, the same way I don't understand why there are 6 versions of Vista.

I shall read your link when i have 5 minutes, it might help me understand SBS a bit better, though I still prefer our other server Win2003 Std Edition!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[58sniper]

the only pain with SBS is its poor excuse for Exchange system manager because of the way the User accounts and Exchanged are inter linked.

Say what? That's really no different than than a non-SBS setup. With SBS, you just have access to some wizards that automate somethings. But you're still accomplishing the same underlying tasks, and those can be verified in ADUC and ESM. There really are few differences with the non SBS versions of these products.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[1DMF]

no you have much more control over Exchange with system manager on a standard non SBS server, AD accounts are not interlinked with mailboxes as they are with SBS.

I could merily administer Exchange completely independent of AD users and vice versa , you cannot do that with SBS!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[ShackDaddy]

I guess it depends on what "control" means. I spend a lot of time in the ESM on SBS boxes, but I know that when I want to create a new user, the most efficient way to do it is through the SBS User wizard.

When I first started working with SBS, I frequently bypassed the initial task wizards when I was trying to set up SharePoint, VPNs backups, OWA, etc. I was more comfortable messing around in the IIS Admin console directly, for example, than relying on a wizard. I quickly learned that things were a lot stickier under the SBS hood than the servers I'd spent years working on before, and I had to begin to rely on the SBS automation to keep from jacking things up.

People can keep plowing along doing things the same way they always have, but they will be wasting a lot of time and resources. Product evolution is about making tasks more efficient and making many of them obsolete. In the same way that brick-level backups are a waste of time, providing only an illusion of safety and control, so are certain approaches to managing SBS.

ShackDaddy
Shackelford Consulting

 

[58sniper]

I could merily administer Exchange completely independent of AD users and vice versa , you cannot do that with SBS!

Yes, you can. The same management tools that come with the stand alone products are still there. Other than the build in limitations of SBS (no trusts, 75 users, etc), the products are pretty much the same. However, there are a lot of wizards that automate many tasks. And they're automated to fit in with MS best practices. But you can most certainly manage components down to the compartment level.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[1DMF]

still don't agree , doing a 3 tier backup including brick is better than a two tier backup not including brick.

And if it makes no difference it won't hurt doing it anyway!

2 brick or not 2 brick that is the question, sod it, do it anyway for me is the answer!

but i am making my way throught that SBS document slowly, i'm sure there are some good things I can pick up from it.

We don't use Sharepoint, so I prefer IIS on our webserver, though OWA is a god send!

oh and my point regarding Exchange, let's say I have a department and want to create a shared mailbox for the department, i have no choice but to create an AD User linked to that mailbox, rather than just using Exchange manager to create a mailbox and give the group access to it.

Unless i'm missing something!







"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[58sniper]

oh and my point regarding Exchange, let's say I have a department and want to create a shared mailbox for the department, i have no choice but to create an AD User linked to that mailbox, rather than just using Exchange manager to create a mailbox and give the group access to it.

That's why we have Public Folders.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[1DMF]

? public folders to put a mailbox that can be attached to an outlook client profile, how do I do that?

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

We don't use Sharepoint, so I prefer IIS on our webserver

It's not an either/or situation. On SBS you have BOTH. The SharePoint Companyweb is configured automatically (

http://companyweb),

but you also have IIS running for OWA, OMA, Monitoring and Reporting, and if you think OWA is a godsend, you should LOVE Remote Web Workplace (

http://sbsurl.com/rww).

And while you can use public folders for a group shared mailbox, you don't have to... and you can most certainly create a user directly in ADUC with a mailbox that'll be shared... see

http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/MF006.html

for the tutorial.


Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com

 

[58sniper]

And while you can use public folders for a group shared mailbox, you don't have to.

Nor should you, if you have SharePoint. MS is doing away with Public Folders. Exchange 2007 is the last version that will support them. SharePoint is where you want your data. Much more flexible.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

 

[1DMF]

It's not an either/or situation. On SBS you have BOTH.

I think you miss the point that we have more than one server and the 'webserver' is not SBS, it isn't even on a domain!

I looked into sharepoint and my first impressions weren't good ones, I guess it's moverd on from the early days, but it would mean upgrading to 2007 to get the real benefits, not to mention office 2007 etc...

I'm a little wary of the concept of loosing the file server and using SPS instead, mapped drives and Windows Explorer does the job and if it aint broke!



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[TechSoEasyMVP]

Even though you may have a separate web server, SBS has IIS and Sharepoint installed automatically and is preconfigured to use both.

We're not talking about SPS here... it's Windows SharePoint Services.

See

http://sbsurl.com/features

to see everything that's already in your server.

Jeffrey B. Kane
TechSoEasy

http://www.techsoeasy.com