Entry-Level Blues 1

[benlinkknilneb]

Hi all,

I'm a college student, majoring in CompSci, with 1 year until I complete my degree. I took an internship last summer in a manufacturing environment, developing statistical/database applications. It has since grown into a full-time position. My question is this: is the market for IT People/Computer Programmers/etc. really as bad as some of the depressing posts I've read in this & other forums? What do you think I can expect in terms of a job market in the next year or two? It's not necessarily that I'm looking to get out of this job; I really love it... but I also want to know what my options are.

Ben

 

[flapeyre]

What matters is that you now have your foot in the door. You have experience with this company (albeit as an intern), but that will give you a leg up on any other potential candidates once you get your degree.

I don't think the job market is really as bad as some people make it out to be. I've always thought that IT is the best thing to get into, because everybody uses comouters and everybody depends on them. It's just a matter of you targeting the right segment of IT that has demand. Reserch that and focus your learning in that direction.

So, keep at it, and if worse comes to worse, and your current employer dumps you, you are going to have a leg up over the other graduates who have a degree without experience. The job market will get better; it's part of the economic cycle.


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[mozingod]

Experience is the best thing you can have in this industry IMO. I've had an internship for the past 2+ years since I was 16, and while my knowledge level is the same as a few of my friends, I've been able to get call backs and job offers while they can barely get in for an interview.

Like flapeyre said, the industry will pick back up again, it's an inevitability. Baby boomers will start retiring soon, and lots more jobs will be opening up in all industries.

Darrell Mozingo

 

[benlinkknilneb]

I agree, mozingod... Experience has been very important for me, too, even moreso than "education". At my university, the majority of the professors have never had a "real" job in computers. They teach theories that they've never tested... and it's been driving me nuts. I've learned more in the last 6 months on the job than I have in 3 years of school, simply because I use it every day.

Both of your opinions about the state of the industry are encouraging... I've been cruising these forums for a while now, and everyone's talking about the IT industry supposedly being "clogged" with people who jumped in hoping to make fast money.

What kinds of "certification"-type things are available for programmers? I mean, Microsoft has all those certs for network admins, etc... but I've never really heard of any for developers. Is that something that's even available?

 

[Tarwn]

Maybe I was lucky in that every single one of my professors had worked in the field or, in the case of a couple, had major hardware or software out there with their names on it.

As far as CS jobs and IT jobs in general. The manufacturing industry is going nowhere but up. The eceonomy might slow them down occasionally, but from what I have seen they are always in need of more people. Perhaps because it is more of a constant growth market. A lot of places are still using technology from 20 to 40 years ago and are upgrading. By the time those upgrades are done they are in need of upgrades for othe sites. With these upgrades goes installation of historians, with better and better data collection now the manufacturing world is looking harder at doing something with that data. This provides a drive for custom software and software packages that manage raw data, provide alert systems, data analysis, etc

I watched someone save a site 1 million dollars a few weeks ago. It took him several days, but he made a particular piece of software slightly more efficient. And he continues to work with that stuff, constantly improving it.

-Tarwn

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[mozingod]

I do believe the industry is clogged with too many "wanna be's", if you will. Experience is one of the best things to make you stand out though. Many peopel can memorize for a test, and halfway code a nice looking demo, but until they see that you've done the job they're looking for in other companies, they'll never know for sure if you're the real deal or not.

On the cert topic, there sure is! From Microsoft alone, they have the MCAD and MCSD, both linked below. MCAD is more geared towards .NET I believe. Good luck!

http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcad/default.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/default.asp

Darrell Mozingo

 

[benlinkknilneb]

Thanks for the links, mozingod... I never knew that was available. I'll be looking into that soon!

Ben

 

[marvandkelly]

I think your right Mozingo, in that the IT filed is bloated with "wanna-be's". I think in the past many companies looked for people with certs only. Don't get me wrong, Certs can be a good thing. But as Mozingo said, many people can cram for the exam and simply spit out the info.

To really excel in the IT field you have to have a good understanding of the technology. Not just how it all works, but the why's also. This will come with experience, one of your most valuable assets.

 

[benlinkknilneb]

I hear ya loud and clear, marvandkelly; I've had several professors who were living proof... it never ceases to amaze me that there are people "teaching" computer science courses who have 0 experience in the subject matter they're teaching. I had a professor for a class on TCP/IP last year... he was reading about a chapter ahead of us all semester in order to teach...

 

[mmorancbt]

I'll send you to my article as to why I believe I.T. is a great career. It still is and opportunities exist even in recessionary times.

The Best Time To Build An I.T. Career is Now

http://www.thetechmag.com/index.php/news/main/19/event=view

However, as I have said in similar posts, the next hot technology is "business acumen". It is the missing component in most technologist's careers.

Take a look at this EWeek article called Bridging The Gap.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1023750,00.asp

But I caution, the job market's worst gauge is job boards, want ads, and job fairs. Your ability to network both inside and outside of the industry of your choice and with both technical and non-technical professionals will be a much stronger determiner of long-term career success. Not simply being proficient at a given technology.

I hope this helps.

Matthew Moran

 

[mozingod]

Also people skills. As in any position, those are essential.

benlinkknilneb: I know what you mean about the teachers. That's why I don't understand why smaller local colleges are bashed so bad. I go to a local college that was a tech school up until a few years ago, when they became an official state school. Well, almost all of my technology teachers have real world experience and came into teaching for various reasons. Their experience definatley helped too. Whenever you'd ask a question, they wouldn't answer it like it was out of the book, they'd tell you how they used to do it in the field, or relate examples in the books to their experience. Any of those &quot;why do we have to learn this&quot; questions were met with replys ranging from &quot;well, we used this when <insert situation>&quot; to &quot;i've never used this and don't see a need to delve into the subject farther&quot;. I loved that kind of learning...

Darrell Mozingo

 

[namida]

I'm also at an entry level.. Just graduated as well.
In fact I'm still on probation and trying to get out of it.

One of my greatest fear is that the boss kept on warning that if I don't perform I'll get myself kicked (which is already obvious in any company and yet I need to be reminded constantly it seems) although right now he is happy with my performance, and that he hopes that once he get my working visa (I'm a foreigner here) he will not regret it.

The company is a small company so there's only 2 programmers here right now. I'm in charge of the whole thing of the web There's not much chance of a promotion in anywhere is there? hehe

That really doesn't light things up for me and the thing is, right now my performance has been fine because I'm still meddling on the surface. I am using PHP and am a newbie altho I must say it's far easier than JSP

I don't want to program my whole life either so I'm thinking where am I to go next? I'm new and it's a long way to go.. but...

 

[smittytech]

With respect to the experienced people posting on this thread - thanks for the info.

I guess there are A LOT of IT people who have numerous certs but don't really have a clue, they get jobs by BS'ing there way thru the door.

I guess I fall into the &quot;wanna-be&quot; category. I think I wanna-be a database administrator someday. I want to be able to build the server (correctly), tie it to the network (correctly), install, configure & administer the appropriate applications (correctly).

Hmmmmmm.....Since I don't mind hard work I guess that makes me old school.

&quot;Life without chocolate is too terrible to contemplate!&quot;