Elite Thinking 14

[Onyxpurr]

Okay, I admit the title is a little too much, but here's my question:

I was just reading an article about the IB (honors) students being a bit snobbish to the regular students at high schools. I couldn't help but compare this to IT professionals and our customers.

I must admit I've fallen into this thinking in the past before. I lose my patience, start calling my users "ID-10-Ts" and so forth. Even most (if not all) of my IT co-workers suffer from this mentality.

So my first questions, is why do we fall into this mentality in the first place?

Second, is how do we keep our patience and cool and be as respectful to out customers (behind their backs and in front of them)?

 

[Onyxpurr]

The only things that really does get me frustrated is the assumption by non-IT people to think that everything I do is at the touch of a button.

I appreciate the praise and the flattery (love being the wiz around here) however, many people think what I do only takes a few keyboard strokes and that's it. Not to mention that I have a thousand other projects to work on because I'm the only one that offers that support around here.

Plus being in a exempt position I don't get much in way of fun recognition. I'd like a free t-shirt every once in awhile too. Okay I know that sounds silly, but I appreciate good clean fun at work every once in awhile to keep from blowing a fuse.

Did you know the average IT person is burned out in 3 years? Only 3 years!!! I can understand why, but it seems that no one else outside the IT industry cares that we have aggravating problems too. It seems the public just sees us as geeky, money-hungry, techie wiz's to put up with. Have you seen the Dell commercial with pc buying boot camp?

Okay, done ranting.

 

[flapeyre]

Only 3 years to burnout? I've been programming for the last 11 years.

I'm not burned out, but I am starting to get a tan.


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Onyxpurr]

flap

How are you getting a tan? I'm pretty white, and I think I've gone glowingly white since I started IT. I know that my optician at least is very happy.

 

[theoxyde]

Monitor radiation

 

[BeckahC]

I'm very fair-skinned... IT has actually saved me from way too many cases of sun-poisoning! ;-)

And you just reminded me to make an appt for new glasses...


BeckahC

 

[rosieb]

Good point Matt.

I think there's an argument for making support staff actually spend time in the users' departments.

Often IT staff aren't kept in the loop about what the organization is trying to achieve. How often do you find yourself chatting to someone about a problem that they find intractable, only to realise it could easily be solved with a minor tweak to their system? (When no-one has even thought to approach IT.) ...and back to making IT more approachable...

 

[BJCooperIT]

How approachable do we seem when we are often secured behind locked doors or squirreled away in the basement?

We IT folks often sit together at lunch and talk a foreign language (Tek-ese) which might really put people off.

The reverse is all too often true - where we run from social contact wuth non-techies for fear they are just going to ask us a question.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[Onyxpurr]

One of the things that is nice about my company is that the IT people sit out on the floor with the rest of the employees. This allows for much more interaction.

Also, one thing I like about my work is that being the only programmer/reporting analyst at my location, I HAVE to understand all the workflows and interact with my customers. I don't think there is a single department or work process I haven't touched or not been involved with.

I do have a certain respect for my customers. They definately do things that I couldn't do or even put up with on a day to day basis (like our call centre).

 

[BeckahC]

I came from the main dept I do work for. I put in a few years as a clerk there while going to school and getting training, then I transferred to a programmer position. I think this gives me a unique view compared to some of my co-workers. I understand most of what the systems for them are doing, because I worked as a user for a while over there and understand their needs. Most of those I work with now in IT never did that and only have training offered by other ITers, and haven't actually sat down with the users to see what they use the programs for. It's a shame, I think we could all do much better at our jobs if we had a true understanding of what our users actually need and how they need it.

Personally, I try to walk over to that dept every so often and chat with people I program for. Not for a long time or to waste time, but to get a better feel for where the priorities lay and what they really need. I encourage them to let me know if they do need anything and they seem to understand I will do my best to get them what they need when they need it. I think if we make an effort to be there for them, we'll be seen as the support we're supposed to be, rather than the "unreachables". But not everyone makes that effort.

BeckahC

 

[Tarwn]

Just to see what other peoples thoughts on this are:

Why is it that programmers are called elitist when:
a) We are required to learn at least the basics if not a lot more about the field the application will be used in, in order to better serve the future user
b) The end users rarely bother to learn even the basics of computer capabilities much less computer use and definately not the basics of what is actually possible with programming

In my mind if the end user just has to sit there and expect all there problems to be solved and we have to cater to them by a) learning part of their skill and b) figuring out how to make the computer do their skill and c) figuring out how to make the computer easy for the user to use

Maybe if users were required to learn a little programming or take some low level computer classes before showing up for a requirements meeting it would be differant.


I'm not elitist, I just think that if I can learn my trade, practice my trade, learn key aspects of someone elses trade, then spend half the development time making the functional system easier to use for someone that knows next to nothing about computer use (listening to outrageous requirements all along)...



[sub]01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111[/sub]
The never-completed website:

http://www.tiernok.com/

 

[Onyxpurr]

Tarwn,

Yes, but it's not as if we went into this field thinking otherwise. Even in my Bachelor's programs, the teacher often spoke of these issues. I think the problem, for me at least, is that sometimes HR is compensating us for just programming and not all the other factors taken into play. As a programmer I have to not only know code but also,

- Work processes (in and out)
- Office politics (who needs what first and how will the program affect other areas)
- Personal preferences (does the customer like to type out the value or use a drop down)
- Error handling (does the user know enough that that value doesn't even make sense in that field)
- GUI Interface (green lettering on a red background is not good, and the user will need to fill out this field before that one)
- Documenting (in the program, outside of the program, for every change ever thought of to make to the program)
- Research and training (what was good for yesterday's app may still not be good enough for today's)

The list is exhaustive. We are professionals in the strictest sense of the word.

But regardless of what you do, you should never consider yourself "better" than another person and belittle them for it. ("Move!&quot And as professional, we should act it. I'm sure (and I know this for a fact) that we're not the only profession that thinks this way, I just think we're the most verbal about it.

 

[Tarwn]

I agree to a point. I think part of the innate problem here is that all of those things are in our job description, which I am not arguing, but end users rarely have the same types of requirements towards their computers. Part of this is undoubtedly not their own fault as I know many companies could care less if their people actually know how to use computers.

Example:
I recently got in a pseudo-argument with the CEO (I'm one of those touchy programmer types apparently) because the sales guy who (attempts) to sell our software has difficulty even installing it.
The first time he tried it it was in a zip folder (1 exe, 1 dll) with attached instructions to create a folder on his desktop named x, unzip the two files to that folder, double-click on the xyz.exe file. I received a bug report 15 minutes later concerning a "DLL not found" error, apparently he didn't have a lot of time and figured he would just try half the program...so he only unzipped the exe.

These are the types of people that I'm thinking of. The ones that fail to understand what is involved in makig the computer do x, y, and z, have difficulty with basic instructions, and yet require this idea in a nice easy package or them to use despite the fact that they already have difficulty operating a computer...In fact, this is where I got my title of being "touchy" or "difficult". Apparently I was conspiring against him or something...
And the sales guy is just an example, I have had end users do this, managers, etc.

The best end user I ever had was one who used to program and actually wrote his own office system in Paradox 4. So he was out of darte but understood enough of the process to not ask me to make the system read his mind...

[sub]01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111[/sub]
The never-completed website:

http://www.tiernok.com/

 

[BeckahC]

I think it's a "Walk a mile in the other person's shoes" issue. Techs are supposed to undeerstand the basic workings of all the systems we work on. Users frequently don't understand even the processes behind what they do on the computer or why things happen the way they happen. this can lead to steps being skipped (in the name of saving time) things being missed (and the programmers beiing called in to correct it) and the same mistakes made over and over until the 1st one is "found" and then *maybe* the appropriate training is given.

I think if the users were required to take basic computer classes, as well as classes in whatever software they need to use on a regular basis, we might get fewer calls about "disappearing data" and "magically reappearing deleted data" and the like and get more higher level questions and requests instead.

I once had to explain what a cell is on Excel. The person not only had been using Excel for a while, but had also graduated High School at around the same year I did - computers were in the schools, computer classes were required - I guess his school didn't use Excel. I did the explaining, then I went to the person's manager, explained what had occurred and suggested a low-level CompUSA course in Excel might assist him in doing his job better. The manager said she would love to send everyone for the training they needed, but they were short-staffed and it wasn't happening any time soon...

My point... sometimes it's management making money and time decisions that keep some users from learing the basics. I put in for training and was told similar - If I want to improve my knowledge I either need to do so on my own time... or wait a while.

BeckahC

 

[BJCooperIT]

Good point BeckahC! I worked on a state contract where they sometimes dropped an icon on a user's desktop. The only training the user got was an email that said "Use this tool from now on!".

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[rosieb]

OK, IT are often unappreciated, but...

I work in a public service organisation and one of my "non-technical" users was recently too scared to leave the building unaccompanied because a client, who was unhappy with her explanation of his (lack of) benefit rights, was hanging around at the door. He was resentful and has a history of aggressive behaviour.

Escorting her from the building rather put any resentment I may have at my "clients" into perspective (I wouldn't want her job, and she's paid a pittance).

BeckahC is absolutely right about walking in others' shoes.

Rosie

 

[SQLSister]

On walking in another's shoes. Many of the lower level workers who are system users are so poorly paid that they work two or three jobs just to survive. They have neither the time nor the enegry to learn programming.

On treating people like they are stupid. One thing I learned when I taught was that you get what you expect. When you treat people as stupis, they will behave as even more stupid. When you start treating people as smart professionals in their own speciality, they will start to seem smarter to you.

 

[mattKnight]

I read this today and it reminded me of this thread!

http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/management/story/0,10801,89556p2,00.html

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[Onyxpurr]

"Users want ... whatever they want. You'll never know what that is -- or if you can deliver it -- by guessing, assuming or abstracting from current system usage. You'll have to ask -- politely, persistently and keeping in mind that they don't like talking to you any more than you like talking to them. "

Interesting. But why is it that in our industry we have to "guess" what the users are thinking and people are surprised if we don't gues right. I mean we do have our methods of gleaning information, but it feels like pulling teeth.

 

[theoxyde]

Users want security to be invisible. They don't want to keep track of a half-dozen passwords, or worry about viruses in e-mail attachments, or have security get in the way of anything they do. They want you to stitch security into your systems so they don't have to remember to follow rules.

Invisible Security is like the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy... nice to talk about, but never seen in the wild. Users will often ask the impossible, and sometimes no amount of money will make it do what they want. A good system designer is one that can keep from bad-mouthing the user and come up with an alternative they can get the users to buy into ("nifty idea... now, what if we enhance that a bit by doing this...&quot.

 

[foundryqa]

I have a little different take on this. As a Quality Engineer for a iron foundry, I have the opportunity to work hands on in the shop and on the computer creating apps. One thing that I have learned is that we often point out individuals in the organization as being this or that and lay blame on that individual. Often what we fail to see is what the organization and it's systems mold us into. For the user, as SQLSister states, they may work multiple jobs just to feed the kids. They are not expected nor encouraged to rise to any occassion (management failure). Likewise the IT professionals are either overworked or not trained properly on dealing with users (management failure). My guess is for the majority of both users and IT profs. if they met in a social setting, they would get along nicely. If one is not given the proper tools to do the job, be it training, time, systems then elitism, sarcasim and so on crop up. They are coping mechanisms. I don't know how to teach person Y, I know what I'm talking about because I programmed the thing so instead of saying to myself that I need to learn more about communication it is easier to say they can't be taught.

I'm not saying to let everyone off the hook here, I'm just saying that the world is not always full of single cases, there is a higher order to it all. Management has a profound influence on us all. It is hard to accept, because we are all motivated and capable professionals, that managers have a profound influence on how things are done. That goes for personal relationships at work too.

Just my thoughts. And please be nice to us little guys we come in peace.

Fred

PS great thread. SQLSister hit it on the head.