Earning a degree (Phoenix)

[TurkishGold]

Hi,

I will try to keep this as brief as possible.

I didn't do very well in high-school, but I graduated (2001). I spent a few years in various jobs (non IT related) and recently completed an IT diploma course at a technical college. I got into networking/pc-hardware, although it is not a path I wish to travel any further. I am a Brit, although I plan to live in the U.S. fairly soon. I would like to earn a Bachelor degree now. I am 21 years old now... I want to do a degree in E-Business, which (surprisingly) is not offered by a large number of institutions. In brief, I am considering the University of Phoenix Online. I am not extremely familiar with the U.S. college system - what I mean specifically is this business about attending a "RESPECTED/REPUTABLE" institution. It seems like American's make a huge deal about getting into good schools... Should it apply to someone that hasn't done very well in high-school? Does attending a "lesser" institution mean that you will be less successful/respected? I am considering Phoenix mainly because of their online option. I think that there are some mixed opinions about Phoenix on this web-site, and I'd like to hear your arguments (if you think they will help me). Luckily my parents are still on my side and are willing to pay for me, so the fact that it is expensive is not so much of a big concern (not that I like throwing money away or anything...).

The course is designed as follows:
- 3 1/2 years total
- first half - Associate degree "business"
- second half - Bachelor degree "e-business"

I spoke to an academic advisor at Phoenix and he told me that it would be easy to transfer to any of their campuses at anytime. And that I could transfer to a different college/university if I wanted to (I'm thinking after the Associate degree part) - which would be nice as I could graduate from somewhere else, which means my degree wouldn't say "University of Phoenix Online" on it.

Thanks for taking the time to read.... I am really counting on your thoughts on this. I guess I'm really hoping for some encouragement.







-----------------------------
A+, Network+, CCNA
WORKING ON:
e-Biz, i-Net, MCSA
-----------------------------

 

[chiph]

See thread654-902365

You can also do a search on "accredited" to get more results.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[TurkishGold]

You didn't just reply to all of that with a link did you? Thanks anyway, but it didn't really answer my -specific- question.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> You didn't just reply to all of that with a link did you?

This topic has been discussed many times over. How many links would you prefer?

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[DTSMAN]

I just started at a Phoenix campus last week, persuing my BSIT. The school in regionally accredited vs nationally accredited, which is the higher accreditation. I did what you did, only 10yrs ago I got my AAS from a tech school. I wanted to go to the local major university but they would not transfer credits in from a nationally accredited school. I chose UOP for its accreditation and that its curriculum because it was most similar to the curiculum of the Universtiy of Louisville, vs ITT and Devry, which where mostly just computer classes. I posted a similar thread back when I was researching what to do and it got pulled from the forum. I think someone may have posted something bad. Also, I chose them because they had a campus here, I could not do online education.
UOP started out in the 80's as a corespondence school, doing degrees by mail, then moved into online degrees, and now opening campuses. It has been around quite a while.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[Dollie]

I looked into online schools, courses, and degrees. I spent too much time contemplating it, however, and wasted too much energy doing it.

I found the answer in my own backyard. The local community college where I live provides the classes I want to take at a more than reasonable price ($38 per credit hour). I can also take 100% of my course hours and transfer them to a local $Major University$ to complete my bachelor's degree. If I don't transfer, I'll still come out with an Associate in Science degree.

I can take the classes online, at the campus, or at one of the remote campuses that may be closer to my house.

Went for my placement testing last week, and I start in the fall.

I'm only 20 years late, but at least I'm doing it finally!

 

[SirHogaLot]

Turkish,

You have just unleashed an answer that could span volumes if people so chose to explore the psychology of employers looking at degrees, accreditation, etc. I will spare you all of the boring details and just give you my perspective. However, Bear in mind that I have never attended (physically or digitally) the University of Phoenix.

I do have experience with many types of colleges. Much like Dollie, I started at an accredited community college (received my associates), transferred to a state university and am now working on my MBA at another state university. I honestly feel that I would choose a community college (at least to start) to Phoenix. At a community college, you get a broader overview of courses, you get some computer training, they are accredited, it is cheap, and the academic standards required to get into a community college are a little more relaxed. Furthermore, although the academic advisor told you that you could transfer to another school (which I will assume is a true statement), the institution that you transfer too doesn't have to approve all of the transferred credits. So, if you transfer from an unaccredited university, it is very possible that many of your credits may not be counted. Also, be sure that you WANT to take all online classes. I have taken several...some good, most bad. Bear in mind that the reason you are spending money to go to school is to have access to a valuable knowledge resource, both intrinsically and extrinsically. What I mean by that is this: You can get much more from a face to face class than just book knowledge. Talking to professor’s with years of academic studies can help to prepare you socially for the workplace. Lastly, I've heard that Phoenix is pretty expensive, but I can't really speak to that.

I didn't mean to ramble, so I will cut to the chase. It has been my experience in the U.S. that employers DO in fact look at where you got your degree, and most DO care that the university you attend is nationally accredited. With that said, I am not trying to knock anyone that has any degree from any University because it shows perseverance and fortitude to complete a degree.


Sorry for the long reply.

Hog

 

[dk87]

I hired someone with an "IS" degree from UOP. I might as well have hired someone with a degree in shoe shining. Maybe the individual was a bit on the daft side, I don't know, but I would put more stock in someone with years of experiece over a college degree any day, and I would hire someone from a brick and morter institution before ANY online school. It seems people don't learn as much in front of a computer screen with all of life's little distractions.

 

[DTSMAN]

I kind of agree. I wouldn't have chose UOP if they didn't have a campus. I was skeptical of online degrees. But I did alot of reasearch before I went back to school, and the online degrees, (in my opinon) are for those people who are already working at a level that requires a degree and they just need the paper trail for professional reasons. Trust me, there are lemons in every graduating class of any university.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[N0ktar]

Well, I must say UoP is expensive, it will cost you close to $1,400 every six weeks (three credit hours every class). I think one of the main requirements for UoP is also that you must be a working profesisonal (but I'm not sure if it applies to all degree programs).
Personally I know IT quite well, I know networking very well, I have several years of experience in a field as a network admin and I take these classes mainly because I want to complete a degree program and my employers pays for it. I would not recommend it if you have very little experience and do not wish to spend hours in front of the computer. It's online 100%, you do have to study and you can surely learn a lot but you have to be motivated and self-disciplined or you will waste your time and money.

 

[kHz]

"... paper trail for professional reasons..."

Is there any concern about the value of an education? And if this is the attitude, then the chances of learning is reduced.

 

[MasterRacker]

There is something to be said for having a populace that is well educated enough to vote intellligently. It terrifies me to look at some of the schlubs you see on Jerry Springer and realize that they have a vote that counts just as much as mine.

The primary value of an education however, is what it does for your paycheck. Everyone has a level that they consider to be a minimum acceptable standard of living. Below that, your main concern is more money. For the most part, it's only people above that line that can say things like "there's more to life than money." The value of education is how it helps you get and keep the job that gets you above that line.

[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.[/sub]

 

[nissan240zx]

From what I have read and heard. Univ. of Pheonix is the only Online Univ. that is most widely recognized.
I am not sure of accredited value of the univ. but its more accepted that some other ones like Regis Univ, Kennedy Western etc.

What I think is..ofcourse the name of your university matter when you go for a job interview..but if you can do the interview well and do your job..thats all matters.

You can have some super hot degree from Yale or Stanford but you dont know the subject well enough to do the job..basically that degree is useless except to hang it on wall (with an expensive frame).

I say go for it..and good luck..

 

[kHz]

I will acknowledge what MasterRacker stated about a degree for getting and keeping a job. And a degree generally does reward a person with more money.

However, I would like to restate my "value of education." I had a coworker who was in one of those accelerated bachelor's program for working adults (where you take 1 class three hours once a week for 4 weeks over 2 years and you get a bachelor's degree.) Of course, his class was all non-traditional students and almost each one of them (according to him) did not even care about the classes. They would play games on their laptops during class, their assignments were incomplete, they did not participate in groups but accepted the work of others in the group, and on and on.

Sure, a degree will help you get and keep a job. But what is the purpose and value of having a degree if it was only as a "paper trail" as those individuals are getting as described in previously? Those people are not going to learn anything. What are they going to take out of their organizational behavior class? Likely nothing.

They just want a degree. The average work experience is 10 years for a lot of high quality MBA degrees. Do you think the attitude of someone getting an MBA believes 'I know it already, therefore I am going to sluff my way through?' No. They wouldn't last long in the program. But they are there to learn even though they have many years of experience. Yes, they are there, sitting in class and doing assignments on nights and weekends to further their career - and earn more money - but they are also without a doubt learning.

That is the "value of education" of which I am speaking. The difference between the two types of individuals mentioned in the previous paragraphs. Those sluffing their way through are wasting their time and money and are a sham to future employers - or current employers - and current employers are probably paying for their so-called education.

 

[MasterRacker]

I would agree with kHz. The premise underlying what I said is that the degree helps the paycheck because you learned something, thereby increasing your ability to perform. Those who are simply trying to get a piece of paper for the wall are wasting their time.

[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.[/sub]

 

[rcpis1]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/sports/article.adp?id=20050625193609990003&ncid=NWS00010000000001

Click the above link to see the article about the Online Phoenix University graduation ceremony last week and Shaquille O'Neal.

rcpis1

 

[lb63640]

I don't think that it matters as much WHERE you've obtained your degree, so long as you can PERFORM and show the employer that you can do the work expected of you.

 

[Onyxpurr]

You get what you put in. I did an accelerated program with night stduents at my university and learned a lot. It also helped that most of the students in the classes with me were professional adults. I have worked professionally for about 5 years, and agree that experience is valuable, however there were some concepts that I learned at school that I have not encountered at any of my jobs.

 

[dk87]

I think that even if you have a degree, you should never stop learning. I have been in IT for many years, and if I did not keep going back to learn new things, I would never have been able to support newer things, like AD and VPN's. Plus, there's always something to learn about the things you've used for years.

 

[mkrausnick]

I noticed that you have several certifications in your signature line. I have hired employees in the I.T. industry for many years and in my experience, certifications are a red flag. I wouldn't hire someone based solely on certifications. To be blunt, certifications prove that a person can read a book and take a test. They do NOT indicate that the person actually knows anything. The same, in my opinion, can be said for online learning to a large degree. I have taken online classes, and I found that I learned and retained very little for the large number of hours I spent in front of the computer. In-person courses provide for better knowlege retention.

The message you should get from everyone who has responded to your question is that it is important to apply yourself to the task of learning, rather than getting getting a degree just to say you have a degree.

You are still very young, experience-wise, and you need to understand that, unless you are very unusual, you don't know yet what you will end up doing in life. A brick-building college can help you with that. By taking many types of courses, you may find a subject for which you have a passion. You won't be exposed to that with an online university. As others have stated the advantages of brick-building colleges, I won't repeat. Suffice it to say that your education will be more rounded, and your parents' money better spent, by your taking a few years longer to get a more rounded education.

To start, ask yourself what you want to do with the e-business degree. I mean, e-business is still BUSINESS. Are you interested in BUSINESS, or just in technology? You will be more successful in technology if you understand the field to which the technology is being applied, be that business, government, education, health care, aerospace, manufacturing, etc, etc, etc.

So, aside from the technology, ask yourself what fields interest you, and then set out to learn more about THOSE fields, and along with that, how technology is applied in them. A great by-product of this approach is that you will learn and retain more, and have more fun learning, because you're interested in the subject matter.

Enough preaching. Good luck.



Mike Krausnick
Dublin, California