Hello, my company is in the process of switching to Avaya IP Office system. We will have 2 remote users that connect through VPN phones and are trying to figure out how to set each of them up with correct e911 information since they both live in different states than the main office. Is this something that can be done on the IP Office end (through shortcodes, the ARS table?) or through our telecom provider? Or will we have to purchase a separate piece of software to achieve this? Thanks!
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E911 & Remote Workers 3
- Thread starter LHuffman
- Start date
indeed
This may even be a case fro blocking 911 calls on those handsets (might have some legal implications , I am not bassed in US so have limited knowledge on e911 & local requirements)
ertainy users should be advised not to use the Work phone for 911 calls
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear
This may even be a case fro blocking 911 calls on those handsets (might have some legal implications , I am not bassed in US so have limited knowledge on e911 & local requirements)
ertainy users should be advised not to use the Work phone for 911 calls
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear
TouchToneTommy
Vendor
You can work with the carrier to allow you to send a specific caller ID for 911 calls for the VPN users, but having them in different states from the home office where the IP office lives probably means that the calls will end up at a 911 PSAP that can't really do anything except possibly forward the call to the real PSAP, thus delaying response.
acollard83
IS-IT--Management
What kind of trunks are you using now? SIP, PRI, Analog? If you are using a SIP trunk, most SIP trunk providers will allow you to setup multiple E911 location, you would normally need a separate DID for each location, even if all it is used for is E911. This is how we setup remote users with SIP as well as with a couple PRI carriers we work with.
Greybeard191
Technical User
here's another option if it's only two lines:
1. order a pair of VOIP lines (e.g.VOIP device that will over any internet connection), order them with the addresses matching the locations of the two remote workers.
2. once installed and tested (correct address is received by E911 PSAP), move the VOIP equipment to the IP Office main site, and connect to spare analog trunk ports. Assign unique line group ID's to each
3. create two unique locations for the two remote users, create unique emergency ARS for each locations, with E911 calls targeting the correct unique line group ID.
4. in the locations created in step two, assign emergency ARS to the correct unique emergency ARS for each.
5. on the H323 extension for each remote user, assign the desired location.
6. retest.
assumes you have an internet connection at the main site that can support VOIP connections, and at least two spare analog ports.
This does work, I've had several customers do it this way.
GB
1. order a pair of VOIP lines (e.g.VOIP device that will over any internet connection), order them with the addresses matching the locations of the two remote workers.
2. once installed and tested (correct address is received by E911 PSAP), move the VOIP equipment to the IP Office main site, and connect to spare analog trunk ports. Assign unique line group ID's to each
3. create two unique locations for the two remote users, create unique emergency ARS for each locations, with E911 calls targeting the correct unique line group ID.
4. in the locations created in step two, assign emergency ARS to the correct unique emergency ARS for each.
5. on the H323 extension for each remote user, assign the desired location.
6. retest.
assumes you have an internet connection at the main site that can support VOIP connections, and at least two spare analog ports.
This does work, I've had several customers do it this way.
GB
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1
- #9
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
First of all, GREAT POST on a great topic!
As we Flatten, Consolidate and Extend out communications infrastructure, this exact problem becomes more and more critical to deal with, and can put MLTS E911 on your plate when you least expect it. It is this crucial juncture where you need to start to develop and follow some industry best practices and establish a framework for your communications network.
Pitfalls to stay away from:
Blocking 911 on ANY PHONE - Kari's Law now has a Senate and House Bill that is active that will require:
Fortunately, these three simple best practices are included and available within most systems today. Expanding on those services is easily done through the addition of the appropriate DevConnect add-on that provides the additional functionality. see for a full list of current DevConnect partners.
To handle the routing with your two remote workers, a VoIP Positioning Carrier will be needed. REMEMBER: All VPCs use the same Tier 1 carriers on the back end, so this is very much a price/feature play on ALL of them. You are getting the same back end, so the front end Dashboard service and flexibility of their pricing model is what you need to examine carefully. Circumstances exist where a VPC is required, such as remote users, BUT it is often NOT the best choice for ALL users on the system. Right now, there are a few caveats to VPC, and while the fact there is no CAPEX is attractive, the OPEX can be a real sticker shock. Plus to be effective, you need to deploy some internal functional elements to achieve a real solution to the problem.
In short, buyer beware, question EVERYTHING, and don't get caught up in the double-talk. Educating yourself about E911 can save you 10's of thousands of dollars. There was a case study on Avaya's internal deployment of E911 last year. How we ran the RFI, the RFP, and what our IT department decided what was the best solution and why. In short, we purchased a solution that did on-site notification and location discovery where we needed that functionality, and we then put the VPC services out to bid SEPARATELY for the users requiring the VPC services, such as our work-at-home users.
Oddly enough, we chose two different vendors, and while I have two throats to choke instead of one, we were able to acquire the best solution offered by each separate company, and if either one makes a significant improvement in their offering, we chan change that piece out, without affecting the other. THAT keep both sides on their toes, so they don't get lazy on their offerings as many of the important players have done. IAUG has the presentation available for members:
In closing, don't get oversold on the 30 character field in the ANI, ALI, and PS-ALI databases. While there are ways to keep it current, your local Public Safety Officials may not even look at it. Why? The information is rarely there, and practically NEVER correct or in a format that is relevant. Public Safety first responders have NO IDEA where cube 2C-231 is inside of 211 Mount Airy Road, Basking Ridge. They need to get there, know the most appropriate entrance to respond to, and then I need to have a person or a monitor there displaying the details of where to go, and HOW TO GET THERE. Oh yeah, as a 'cherry on the top' I can provide that in an HTML format to those responders or their dispatcher PRE-ARRIVAL if they want it.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
As we Flatten, Consolidate and Extend out communications infrastructure, this exact problem becomes more and more critical to deal with, and can put MLTS E911 on your plate when you least expect it. It is this crucial juncture where you need to start to develop and follow some industry best practices and establish a framework for your communications network.
Pitfalls to stay away from:
Blocking 911 on ANY PHONE - Kari's Law now has a Senate and House Bill that is active that will require:
Direct Access to 911 from any device (With or without an access code
On-Site Notification that the call has occurred
Interception of the call locally is prohibited
On-Site Notification that the call has occurred
Interception of the call locally is prohibited
Fortunately, these three simple best practices are included and available within most systems today. Expanding on those services is easily done through the addition of the appropriate DevConnect add-on that provides the additional functionality. see for a full list of current DevConnect partners.
To handle the routing with your two remote workers, a VoIP Positioning Carrier will be needed. REMEMBER: All VPCs use the same Tier 1 carriers on the back end, so this is very much a price/feature play on ALL of them. You are getting the same back end, so the front end Dashboard service and flexibility of their pricing model is what you need to examine carefully. Circumstances exist where a VPC is required, such as remote users, BUT it is often NOT the best choice for ALL users on the system. Right now, there are a few caveats to VPC, and while the fact there is no CAPEX is attractive, the OPEX can be a real sticker shock. Plus to be effective, you need to deploy some internal functional elements to achieve a real solution to the problem.
In short, buyer beware, question EVERYTHING, and don't get caught up in the double-talk. Educating yourself about E911 can save you 10's of thousands of dollars. There was a case study on Avaya's internal deployment of E911 last year. How we ran the RFI, the RFP, and what our IT department decided what was the best solution and why. In short, we purchased a solution that did on-site notification and location discovery where we needed that functionality, and we then put the VPC services out to bid SEPARATELY for the users requiring the VPC services, such as our work-at-home users.
Oddly enough, we chose two different vendors, and while I have two throats to choke instead of one, we were able to acquire the best solution offered by each separate company, and if either one makes a significant improvement in their offering, we chan change that piece out, without affecting the other. THAT keep both sides on their toes, so they don't get lazy on their offerings as many of the important players have done. IAUG has the presentation available for members:
In closing, don't get oversold on the 30 character field in the ANI, ALI, and PS-ALI databases. While there are ways to keep it current, your local Public Safety Officials may not even look at it. Why? The information is rarely there, and practically NEVER correct or in a format that is relevant. Public Safety first responders have NO IDEA where cube 2C-231 is inside of 211 Mount Airy Road, Basking Ridge. They need to get there, know the most appropriate entrance to respond to, and then I need to have a person or a monitor there displaying the details of where to go, and HOW TO GET THERE. Oh yeah, as a 'cherry on the top' I can provide that in an HTML format to those responders or their dispatcher PRE-ARRIVAL if they want it.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
Phew, after trying to read that strangely I have no desire to read any blog.
Still, and have links for application notes of their solutions working with IP Office, so worth investigating further - if in the US. Otherwise you need to seek out a local VPC for your locale.
Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.
Still, and have links for application notes of their solutions working with IP Office, so worth investigating further - if in the US. Otherwise you need to seek out a local VPC for your locale.
Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
Well, when it comes to something that affects people's lives, I get a little wordy as there are more BAD PRACTICES out there being preached as BEST PRACTICES by those looking to profit on SELLING E911 Services.
I don't SELL E911, the basic functionality is included to those that own my PBX, as in many of the others out there. I just tell people how to turn it on, and make it work for them with minimal expense in add-ons and only when needed.
Got 8 minutes?
You don't even have to read, just sit back and listen to the logic.
If it makes sense, use it, if not, no harm done!
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
I don't SELL E911, the basic functionality is included to those that own my PBX, as in many of the others out there. I just tell people how to turn it on, and make it work for them with minimal expense in add-ons and only when needed.
Got 8 minutes?
You don't even have to read, just sit back and listen to the logic.
If it makes sense, use it, if not, no harm done!
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
One solution might be ?
IPO 9.1 has a location field.
-populate the IP info of the VPN set in the location field in the IPO.
-Set this location field to use a particular ARS Table
-In the ARS set this so it sends a particular DID number in your DID range. IE: 555-334-1234
-You would need to register this DID number with the PSAP IE: 555-334-1234 = 62 Smith ST.
Registering this DID number with the PSAP will cost $$$$
I used to have super powers but my therapist took them away...
IPO 9.1 has a location field.
-populate the IP info of the VPN set in the location field in the IPO.
-Set this location field to use a particular ARS Table
-In the ARS set this so it sends a particular DID number in your DID range. IE: 555-334-1234
-You would need to register this DID number with the PSAP IE: 555-334-1234 = 62 Smith ST.
Registering this DID number with the PSAP will cost $$$$
I used to have super powers but my therapist took them away...
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
The problem there is if the IP changes or the user moves their phone. Stickers, waivers, Post-it notes stapled to the user's forehead will not stop stupid from stupid. Fixing the problem is not difficult. You need the right solution for the right problem. It needs to be easy to manage, flexible, and actually solve the problem.
Good discussion.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
Good discussion.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
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1
- #14
amriddle01
Programmer
I don't understand why this has been made so difficult for you guys in the US.
Many releases have e911 enhancements/changes. What's so different you need all these settings and discussions?
We don't have any of this nonsense, no e911 settings at all, yet we have no issue getting emergency services to the correct location....
I know we are a much smaller country, but we still have regional call centres for emergency services etc, I can't see how that couldn't simply scale up
Many releases have e911 enhancements/changes. What's so different you need all these settings and discussions?
We don't have any of this nonsense, no e911 settings at all, yet we have no issue getting emergency services to the correct location....
I know we are a much smaller country, but we still have regional call centres for emergency services etc, I can't see how that couldn't simply scale up
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
What country are you located in? Let's start there, and maybe I can help explain.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
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1
- #16
There are over 500 police forces in the state of New York alone. That's why it's so important to get the call to the right people first time.
For England and Wales its just 43 police forces and so a lot easier if the calls ends with the wrong force for them to resolve where it should be and transfer it.
Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.
For England and Wales its just 43 police forces and so a lot easier if the calls ends with the wrong force for them to resolve where it should be and transfer it.
Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.
amriddle01
Programmer
But it scales, or it should. Where you breakout depends on what exchange you're connected to physically, if on mobile it's on the mast you're connected to, that breaks out locally, for IP/SIP you sign documents that state the local of the DDIs you give is correct. That's how it works here anyway
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
amriddle01 said:
Unfortunately, the problem here in the US is the 911 network was built and designed in the late 1960's using technologies available then. Phone numbers lived in single places fo rthe most part, and 'mobility' had to do with wheel chairs and crutches.
The general practice was for the LEC to build out a 911 service area (typically lined up with LATA boundaries), install a Selective Router 911 Tandem office that took calls in from the PSTN and provided trunking to the 911 PSAPs. they also provided frame relay data access to the ALI database that the 911 PSAP can query, and get an address returned for the ANI that was delivered by the 911 call.
Based on that, 2 things are needed to be correct:
1.) Have a trunk in the right selective router service area
2.) Send the right ANI (Caller ID) with the 911 call
Cellular is WAY off topic, and in addition to Phase I Mast location information, Phase II device coordinates can be calculated and provided to the 911 PSAP through a secondary data query. All of this shoudl probably be moved to a new Post "HOW 911 REALLY WORKS" as we are way off topic on the thread.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
amriddle01
Programmer
Is that not the issue, the line is a physical entity, it starts at the exchange and terminates at point B, that's infallible, why require a second parameter to validate what you know....where that line terminates?
Avaya911PLM
Vendor
You are entirely correct the line is a physical entity, and that line has an identifier on it, a phone number. When I am on an MLTS PBX, I may use any line on the system, or in the case of a PRI line, the system dynamically assigns a number when I make the outbound call based on what station is using it.
For example, the IP Phone at my home in NJ has a 908-848-2602 number on it. The CM instance that the phone is attached to is in Highlands Ranch Colorado. My trunking gateways are in a data center in Lebanon, Ohio.
The problem here is that PSTN in Ohio has no connectivity to the E911 Selective Router network in NJ. The local Ohio Selective Routers can do nothing with the 908 number I am sending them. The 911 network and systems in use today, work this way.
When it was first designed, this architecture made sense as phone numbers were static in nature, or were controlled by the Phone Company, and IP technology did not exist allowing the mobility that we have today. 911 location problems are why so many are working on NG911. These new modern IP-based networks will not only provide multimedia; they will break the phone number/location tie.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
For example, the IP Phone at my home in NJ has a 908-848-2602 number on it. The CM instance that the phone is attached to is in Highlands Ranch Colorado. My trunking gateways are in a data center in Lebanon, Ohio.
The problem here is that PSTN in Ohio has no connectivity to the E911 Selective Router network in NJ. The local Ohio Selective Routers can do nothing with the 908 number I am sending them. The 911 network and systems in use today, work this way.
When it was first designed, this architecture made sense as phone numbers were static in nature, or were controlled by the Phone Company, and IP technology did not exist allowing the mobility that we have today. 911 location problems are why so many are working on NG911. These new modern IP-based networks will not only provide multimedia; they will break the phone number/location tie.
--
Fletch
Chief Architect WW Public Safety Solutions
CHECK OUT MY BLOGS & E911 Podcast @
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