duplicating systems or disks 3

[edfair]

There are two recent threads (1-pc hardware) (1-sco unix) where users are requesting help in duplicating disks. the pc-hardware one is related to hardware upgrade on a network and the sco unix one is for creating a duplicate system even though that doesn't show in the thread. (I found this out via e-mail)
In both cases this can be considered software piracy although the pc-hardware can be more of a gray area.
At what point do we as a forum red flag these threads? And is a red flag appropriate? [sig]<p>Ed Fair<br><a href=mailto: efair@atlnet.com> efair@atlnet.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. <br>
Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.<br>
[/sig]

 

[Alt255]

Your point is well taken, Chrisikins. Some software houses don't mind a little &quot;petty theft&quot; because it increases exposure to their products. I guess the concept, as inverted as it may seem, is &quot;So what if Joe User sneeks a copy of Disk Whacker SuperPlus Platinum into his workplace? His co-workers might see that it is a superior piece of software and start lobbying for upgrades across the board.&quot;

I can understand the strategy here but I wonder whether it has ever actually helped to sell a product. It would be almost impossible to gather the statistics.

So far, we have pretty much agreed with this: software piracy is illegal, ethically repugnant and most of us wouldn't consider it. Now, allow me to extend the question. We feel obligated to follow our personal moral imperatives and resist the urge to steal software. To what point, if any, are we obliged to prevent others from stealing software?

We aren't bank robbers. We call the police when we see a robbery in progress. What do we do when we see somebody steal an expensive software package?

To anonymously report the use of unlicensed software
Call 1-800-388-7478​

How does that make you feel? To be honest, it scares the hell out of me and I haven't even done anything!

Alt255@Vorpalcom.Intranets.com
​

&quot;To run Visual Basic, you must have certain hardware and software installed on your computer.
• Any IBM-compatible machine with an 80286 processor or higher.
• One megabyte of memory.&quot;

Visual Basic Programmer's Guide

 

[edfair]

Talk about moral imperatives Craig. You just hit me over the head. I'm in a battle right now with the leadership of my church attempting to get them to authorise the purchase of 4 operating systems and 3 application packages that have been bootlegged onto the office computers. So, shall I turn them in, or shall I wait a while to see if they ante up the purchase price. Actually , the money is in the budget, to be approved tomorrow, but then I'll have to see then if they will spend it , assuming of course that I can find the packages to purchase. Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[Alt255]

Ed, isn't it funny how these things work out? Today I took a consulting job with company (small IT department, 50 workstations and a server). Can you guess what I'll be doing for the next two weeks? That's right, I'll be cleaning the systems, deleting programs and recommending ways to get the company on the right track for software licensing.

In a way, this situation crosses moral boundries. I see a crime in progress but the &quot;criminal&quot; wants to do the right thing and has asked for my assistance. (&quot;Somebody stop me before I kill again!&quot;)

I'll do whatever I can. When I am finished, it will up to the company to stay on the right track. I haven't signed a non-disclosure agreement but my own standards of ethics would prevent me from mentioning more details to another person.

I hope you have worked out the problems at your church, and I really don't intend this as a way to console you or assure you that you have done the &quot;right&quot; thing, but you might compare your situation with mine. You are helping your church, even though it might not recognize the need for help. Perhaps you will sleep better at night if you come to grips with that.

Even if the church choses to ignore your recommendations, you will not have failed for lack of trying. We can't hold ourselves accountable for the actions of others, only do our best and hope they take the clue.

Alt255@Vorpalcom.Intranets.com
​

&quot;To run Visual Basic, you must have certain hardware and software installed on your computer.
• Any IBM-compatible machine with an 80286 processor or higher.
• One megabyte of memory.&quot;

Visual Basic Programmer's Guide

 

[5150]

I have been reading all of the different posts on here and I thought that I would give my opinion to the whole &quot;piracy&quot; thing.

Speaking from someone that supports the end users....I see a lot of this kind of thing (whether it is screensavers, zip utilities, etc.) installed on employees PC (at work and at home) and I actually sit on both sides of the fence. I can see where a lot of you are coming from but I can also understand the other side as well. The biggest problem that people have with software in general is the price. I am even shocked sometimes at the price of the software that is released. Keep in mind that 4% of america makes over $100,000 a year and with some software packages costing more than $500 it's just not economically feasible. I agree that using full complete versions of software that you didn't purchase is stealing...no if's, and's or but's. I am also realistic enough to know that most people can't afford to pay high prices for software and that's why piracy is such a big issue. Say you are an end user and you bring home about $35,000/year and you have a family. After bills, groceries, gas, and other living expenses there's not too much left to go around. Does this make it right...absolutely not but it does say something. For instance let's say you someone is really into 3D and they want to get a software program to create some spectacular models and such. Not for commercial use but because it's what you are into. You start to do your research and from everything you read you come to the conclusion that SoftImage is by far the best program that meets your needs. After looking up the software on the internet you find out that it costs $18,000 for the program. You then start to look for other alternatives but all the research you did stated that all of the other programs can't even come close to competing with SoftImage. What would you do? Most of the people that I know want the best and always obtain the best because let's face it...who wants to be second best or use sotware that's leaps and bounds behind everyone else? Not that I am saying it's right or wrong...it's just how things are nowadays. Technically if you record anything (that you didn't create and/or own) on to a blank tape that is also against the law and a copyright infrigment. Copying TV shows on to blank video tapes is also illegal. The fine line is if you are recording it to distribute or for personal use (and even there the law gets clouded).

Just My 2 Cents

 

[kathryn]

I have to step in here. As far as I know, in the USA, copying TV shows onto tapes is NOT illegal, as long as you do not charge for the replaying of them. If you read the gobbledygook at the end of many videos and listen to Al Michaels at the end of NFL games the wording is that the program is for the &quot;private non-commercial&quot; use of the audience and under those terms taping is acceptable. Of course, I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

Overall, the last post raised the following question: Does that attitude only hold for software or for everything. What if you are the person making $35,000 and you really are into Porsches? or Baccarat crystal? or Picassos?

Just because you really like something doesn't mean you are entitled to it. <conservative rant mode on> You are not OWED anything. You have to earn it, and I am sorry, but some people cannot afford some things. If those things are necessary for life or health, that is one thing. Things that are &quot;wants&quot; and not &quot;needs&quot; are just that - wants that may or may not be satisfied, depending on a individual's circumstances. I make way more than $35,000 a year and there is a bunch of stuff I would love, but I can't afford it and that's that. <rant mode off>

Well, that's my $0.02. Thanks.

Kathryn

 

[5150]

Well I might need some correcting as well but the warnings in the beginning of video tapes says unauthorized copying of this tape is strictly prohibited but I am not quite sure about TV shows I will need to check. I would imagine that the same would hold for TV since it is also copywrighted material. It is the same way with DVD's. Actually DVD's are coded so (last time I checked) you can't hook them up to a VCR and dub them. I know that you aren't supposed to copy CD's to blank cassettes as well. Say you purchase software and you have 3 PC's at home....from what I understand you have to purchase 3 different licenses for that particular software. I also wasn't speaking to the fact of being owed something either. I was just citing examples that most users seem to comment about. I was just talking about feedback on the whole &quot;piracy&quot; issue and giving the possible reasoning behind it. What if you live in a country where there are no copywright laws? I am not positive but I have been told that there are countries that yo can buy CD's full of software for about $15 and it's not illegal to buy/sell them. Do you consider that to be a problem? You also can't group everything together in one whole group. Each thing has to be looked at differently. I agree with you on having to earn things but that's not the reality of today's world. Everything I have I worked VERY HARD to get but there are people who will cut as many corners as they can to get what they want (we are not talking neccessity here) and that's just the facts. Piracy will always be around because the same people that make the programs also make the cracks. Just like the radar detector deal...the same people that make the lasers in the cop cars make the detectors to tell you when they are there. I am not saying that I am disagreeing with you I am just clarifying my position to make sure that I am coming across in the right light.
Just My 2 Cents

 

[KevinFSI]

Not to get on a tv show tangent, but if you'll notice, most TV guides come with little numbers associated with the programs so you can program your VCR to tape those shows. ALSO, when I was in the Air Force, stationed in Japan, we were constantly subjected to a barrage of US gov't commercials on Armed Forces Network that were mainly just propaganda. &quot;Be proud to be in the military,&quot; &quot;Don't send alcohol in the mail,&quot; &quot;Remember to wash your hands when you go to the bathroom,&quot; etc... Anyway, one of the commercials was about watching your favorite stateside shows by using timeshifting (they actually used this term, it was a ridiculous commercial) meaning, tape your shows at 3am and watch them at regular times.

My point? Given the TV guide thing, and the fact that the US Gov't suggests it to servicemembers in commercials, I'd say we can put the legality of taping tv shows to bed. Kevin
slanek@ssd.fsi.com

 

[Alt255]

Hoping to get back on track.... This forum isn't about legal issues. Tek-Tips is global. Local laws vary.

Our feelings are very local but they transcend the global community. How do you feel about piracy at the personal level?

Alt255@Vorpalcom.Intranets.com
​

&quot;To run Visual Basic, you must have certain hardware and software installed on your computer.
• Any IBM-compatible machine with an 80286 processor or higher.
• One megabyte of memory.&quot;

Visual Basic Programmer's Guide

 

[PhiloVance]

If I were to take a walk in the park and found $100 bill laying on the grass, sort of hidden, because the grass was nearly the same color. What am I do to? Take it to the park office, or city manager and tell him what happened? How do you 'identify' a $100 bill? I doubt if anyone copies down the serial number. Well, maybe the analyst!

What I'm demonstrating is that the whole ethical/legal issue comes down to one of personal integrity. In the above example, I would keep the money and probably give it to charity or do something which would not directly benefit me: Buy ice cream cones for all the kids in the park, whatever. I think if you're basically honest and above board, you'll do what the occasion demands. If not, you'll do whatever the law allows.

Simple as that, or is it?

#-)

PhiloVance
Other hobbies, interests: Travel, Model RR (HO Gauge), Genealogy.

 

[warcleric]

Duplicating install disks or duplicating installations on machines is not illegal by its own merit. It is only illegal if the organization copying them uses them without proper licensing. I work for an organization that has enterprise licensing for Solaris and ALL MS products. This means we have the right to use or produce as many copies as we like of this software.

 

[ProximitySteve]

Hi, my name is Steve, and I'm a copyright infringer. (All together now: &quot;Hi, Steve&quot

Back in my consulting days, I would fairly readily load commercial software at home to play with and get familiar with it, prior to supporting it at various client companies, my justification being that I'm making it work better where it is legally installed, and not using it for commercial use at home. If anything, I'm actually helping the software company out, as the client would presumably be more impressed with the software when it is set up better and tweaked, rather than &quot;typical install&quot; mode.

I also used to exceed the posted speed limit by five or ten mph). I consider both offenses to be roughly the same level of 'wrongness'. I was not committing vehicular homicide, and I was not mass-producing copies of MS Office to sell.

Fortunately this isn't the abortion debate, where there are two (generally) mutually-exclusive opinions, and we're all within 10% here. Sure, there's always someone who is going to carelessly go 90 in a 65 zone, and there's always going to be someone going 64.9 in the fast lane backing up traffic behind them.

To answer a question about how others try to dissuade piracy, by the way, something that worked well for me was telling the client &quot;Well, I'm not allowed to do that, and in any case I've heard that Microsoft (or whoever) is cracking down on unauthorized use.&quot;
-Steve

 

[edfair]

Within the last month I've received 2 mailings from BSA telling me that I have a month of grace to stop infringing. I also got 1 mailing from microsoft.
I have a customer whose spouse's company got the same letter and they don't have a computer. So BSA and MS are trying to grow the business by mass mailing. And evidently they got the information from the Georgia Secretary of State, who is the only one with the names of all companies in the state.
Wonder how much it cost for the 3 mailings, and whether the additional software purchased justified it.
Maybe the hardware slowdown has hurt MS more than we knew. Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.