Duplex scanning on CM2320 3

[TonyJollans]

I have a networked CM2320fxi multi-function p... (what does MFP stand for?). I can put a lot of pages on the document feeder and have then scanned double sided to print (one or two sided) just by pressing a couple of buttons.

If I put the same paper in the same place and tell it to scan (rather than copy) to a computer (rather than to paper) then I can not get the machine to scan both sides. Why not? This is total madness.

There are two ways to set up a scan using the HP software: (a) using the "Scan" option from the Windows Start Menu, which lets you send scan parameters to be saved on the MFP, and (b) using the HP Solution Centre where you set the parameters on the computer. There doesn't appear to be any relationship or interaction between the two.

Using the "Scan" option, I can create a set of parameters and they are saved in the registry; in one of the dialogs there is a "duplex" checkbox that is greyed out. If I go to the registry I can change the "DuplexOn" value from 0 to 1 and then the still greyed out duplex checkbox in the dialog will be checked. When I send the details to the MFP it doesn't scan both sides.

Using the Solution Center I can go through a similar process of editing the parameters - this time they are in an XML file - but changing the duplex tag from 0 to 1 has the same lack of effect.

There is no rational reason why the machine capability to scan double sided - a mechanical process unconnected to the output medium - should not be used when scanning. I can only guess there is something in the firmware that, deliberately or otherwise, won't instruct the machine to do it. is there any way I can get over this very annoying limitation?

Enjoy,
Tony

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[hpwizzard]

MFP stands for multi-functional-printer -> A printer capable of printing, scanning and faxing.
This printer cannot perform duplex scanning (it does not have dual scannerheads), only simplex where you have the option to use either the flatbed or the ADF (automatic-document-feeder)
The reason why you might find these options shown but not available is that HP has "recycled" some of their software for this printer which was developed for other MFP models that do have the option of duplex scanning.

 

[TonyJollans]

I don't know what you mean by dual scanner heads - the device can not scan both sides of a page at the same time but it does do duplex copies by scanning first one side then the other. The ADF feeds the page in (scanning as it goes) and out till it just has a grip on the end, then it pulls it back in and turns it over and back out till it just has a grip on the other end, from which it pulls it back (sanning as it goes but, this time, the second side) and finally back out all the way; then it does the next sheet.

I have no idea of what the mechanical details may be but the scanner can do duplex scans. What it refuses to do is send the results of duplex scanning anywhere other than to its own printer.

I appreciate the general purpose nature of the software and, although I don't approve of greying out features the device does not have, I do understand it. I was trying to convey the fact that it seemed I had identified the correct setting in the registry by the fact that it showed in the dialog, however grey.

As a workaround I am trying to scan to 2 PDFs, first a lot of side 1s and then a lot of side 2s, and then using Acrobat to combine the pages in the right order, but I haven't got it automated yet. I am trusting that, with Acrobat, I will not get a loss of fidelity but am less sure about some other PDF products that may work in different ways, although will investigate some of them when I have it working with Acrobat and am confident I have a solution. It is just really cross-making that I have to do this - I really want to be playing with Office 2010 not Acrobat

---
A couple of brief (related) points ..

I really like HP hardware; I think it beats the competition hands down but have had many problems with their software over the years, and they seem to have reached a pinnacle of uselessness with their website, which currently thinks I am in Uruguay and speaks to me in Spanish.

I should have added a smiley to my post - calling the device a multi-function printer is a bit like calling a car a multi-function seat.


Enjoy,
Tony

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[BionicJohn]

Hello, Tony,

It sounds like a shortcoming in the software somewhere. My experience with Canon and Ricoh has been that the Scanner drivers for the remote PC automatically detect the presence of a networked scanner (Model, IP address &c.) and then detect the accessories attached (e.g. ADF model). This doesn't seem to be happening your case.

It's no consolation, but lots of reviews criticise the CM2320fxi scanning, e.g.

But the real issue with this MFP is scanner problems. There are many threads on the quality of the scans, the inability to scan from the printer back to the computer, and the inability to get the scanner functions working at all. Users also had trouble enabling the scan features if they previously had another HP printer installed, even after it had been completely uninstalled, and there was speculation that legacy software existed somewhere on their systems, resulting in the new scanner drivers not installing. While some users were able to scan documents successfully, the most common complaint overall was that the scanner took letter sized documents and scanned them into legal sized format, leaving a strip of white on every page. Frustrated owners fad to go into every scanned page individually and crop the scan to the correct size- a labor intensive job that was not appreciated. As of January 2009, these complaints seemed to still be unresolved, and one user wrote in the forum that the printer did not rate live support from HP. Other frustrated owners were not having any luck in the online troubleshooting guides or updates from HP.

HP Support themselves all but ignore the duplexing facility of the ADF when scanning, and there's even less reference to setting it up and using it. There may be more in the HP Business support forums, as a result of similar issues being raised by users and support staff.

And I agree with you that you have better things to do than sort pages in Acrobat, especially when they could be appearing in the right order at a couple of dozen pages a minute.

Liverpool: Capital of Culture 2008
Anfield: Capital of Football since 1892
Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.

 

[BionicJohn]

UPDATE:

From HP Business Forums
There is an issue with the twain software built into the printer. The hardware itself does support duplex use of the scanner but the TWAIN driver software in the printer doesn't have the ability to flip the second page through 180 degrees which is what it needs to do due to the way the duplex scanner works.

Seems the ball is in HP's court…

Liverpool: Capital of Culture 2008
Anfield: Capital of Football since 1892
Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.

 

[TonyJollans]

Thank you, John,

I have tried the HP forums but hadn't seen that post. It's good to have confirmation that it's their fault. Maybe they'll fix it - I'll keep checking back.

Enjoy,
Tony

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[hpwizzard]

Tony, why is it that you will not face the fact that this printer has only one scannerhead and absolutely no way it can perform duplex scan unless you scan the top of all pages first and then flip the stack when the ADF is empty.
Next you also need third party software able to handle that...

What you write "The ADF feeds the page in (scanning as it goes) and out till it just has a grip on the end, then it pulls it back in and turns it over and back out till it just has a grip on the other end, from which it pulls it back (sanning as it goes but, this time, the second side) and finally back out all the way; then it does the next sheet." is NOT physically possible.

When scanning using the ADF, the scannerhead moves to the left and parks just below the small strip of glass where it will scan the top of the paper passing. The ADF will NOT try and pull any paper backwards as it lacks that feature. Also if the printer had been capable of duplex scanning it would have had two scannerheads for single-pass scanning.


The ADF will NOT flip the paper but autofeed a stack of paper and scan the top only.

The CM2320 is able to do duplex printing of scanned pages but that is something else.

Like I mentioned the "hidden" or greyed out features are leftovers from recycled programming code that was developed for other printers that do have the duplex scan feature, the Color LaserJet CM 2320 does not.

I work at a support on THIS printer everyday so I know what it can do and what it cannot...

Have a great day !

 

[TonyJollans]

I am not a scanner, or printer, expert, which is why I'm asking questions here, and there may well be much I don't understand, but ..

.. I have done my best to describe the physical process as I have observed it; perhaps my description is inadequate in some way but my machine can and does do unattended duplex copying - maybe it is a newer version than yours, I don't know. You are correct that it does not do one-pass duplex scans, but it does do two-pass duplex scans, and the link John posted tends to confirm that the problem is software, not hardware, related.


The more I try to do anything with the device, the more problems I am having - my current problem is that it gets half way through a multi page scan and then throws an error message to the effect that it can't continue because it is in use from somewhere else when there is categorically no other machine anywhere on the network trying to use it; I'm going to try connecting it directly to a computer rather than leaving it on the network, but the software is so woefully inadequate that I am coming to the conclusion that it is not fit for purpose.

Enjoy,
Tony

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[SkipVought]

hpwizzard,

I think what Tony's frustration is, and mine as well, also having this model Printer/Scanner, is that the capability IS there, because you CAN print duplex. What's the basic FUNCTIONAL difference? There is NONE. There may be some TECHNICAL differences, and what it seems is, that two completely different design teams with different purposes designed these two different features.

As Tony originally stated, "This is total madness!"

Skip,
[sub]
Just traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE![/sub]

 

[BionicJohn]

Tony's issue is not duplex printing, but duplex scanning and sending the output to Acrobat (or similar) on a remote PC.

The CM2320fxi User Guide (Page 86 (98 of 292)) indicates that the device has 2-sided -> 2-sided copying facility.

From that I assume that the ADF can automatically turn pages over, i.e. duplex.

If the ADF can scan both sides, in the correct order, and send the output to the print unit, why can the output not be diverted to a suitable application such as Acrobat? HP's Business Forum suggests it's "only" a software rotation issue…

However, HPWizzard says this is not possible as "The ADF will NOT flip the paper but autofeed a stack of paper and scan the top only."

whereas Tony says "You are correct that it does not do one-pass duplex scans, but it does do two-pass duplex scans"

Are we talking about the same model?

Liverpool: Capital of Culture 2008
Anfield: Capital of Football since 1892
Iechyd da! John
Glannau Mersi, Lloegr.

 

[hpwizzard]

Yes, I am 100% sure we are talking the same printer...

Like I stated "The CM2320 is able to do duplex printing of scanned pages but that is something else."

It cannot perform automatic scan of both sides. You will have to to flip the stack of paper you are scanning after you have scanned the top of all pages.

However duplex printing of scanned pages the printer will manage, if you for example scan (copy) 6 pages and want to print them on 3 pages performing duplex printing.

Because the printer can do duplex printing is not the same as it will be able to do duplex scanning also.
HP does not make any laserjet mfp's that will flip the paper automatically to perform duplex scanning.
Those that can actually duplex scan, will have dual scanners, one for the top and one for the back of the paper all working in single-pass.

I don't see any madness anywhere as duplex printing NEVER was the same as duplex scanning.

Tony if you tend to get timeouts or errors during scanning, make sure you have the latest firmware installed for the printer and any software updates that might be present on HP's pages here ->

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...eriesId=3597338&lang=en&cc=us&submit=Go%20%BB

 

[TonyJollans]

hpwizzard, you have been a member here for many years, and I have no wish to continue with this pantomimic argument. Whatever your machines can do, my CM2320fxi, bought in the UK this month, can do unattended 2-sided to 2-sided copying.

As for the rest, thank you for the link, but I do have the latest versions of both the firmware and the software, and it has some serious shortcomings.

Enjoy,
Tony

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[ccarmock]

The CM2320fxi can indeed do 2 sided copying. What It cannot do is 2 sided scannign to a file. This has been acknowledged by HP as a shortcoming of this device that they are sayign won't change.

Teh machine does have an ADF and scanner unit capable of dual sided scannign as it uses it to achieve 2 sided copying of a 2 sided original.

The TWAIN driver that is used to generate, say a PDF to save as a file cannot accommodate 2 sided scanning to file.

 

[SmrRyan]

Your scanner did two sided copying, but not two sided scanning ... bit of a design oversight ... !

I have a Canon multi-function, which has an automatic document feeder, but no ability to physically flip pages. Yet it can still achieve duplex scanning via the bundled software.

You manually flip the stack after the first side. Then as it scans the second side, the 'MP Navigator' software arranges the pages to the proper sequence.

Sometimes it will hit a paper jam somewhere along the way, and if that happens it seems that the duplex building process is ruined. It doesn't seem to be able to resume where it left off.

When this kind of thing happens, usually the best option is to sort the images manually, renaming them one-by-one to give the proper sequence.

Because of this, and the fact that it CAN resume a simplex scan where it left off (after a paper jam etc), often it's more convenient simply to do two simplex scans, then rename the resulting two sets of images to get them in the proper sequence.

So if the first side gave IMG_0001, IMG_0002, IMG_0003, I might rename them to Page_0001, Page_0003, Page_0005, then if the second side gave IMG_0001, IMG_0002, IMG_0003 again, I'd rename them to Page_0006, Page_0004, Page_0002. Then when they combined, they restore the original order.

You can use an MSDOS batch file for this!