Dropping IT - What would you do? 3

[Dollie]

What would you do if you woke up one morning and decided that after years of school and work, doing what you thought you should be doing, you absolutely hate what you are doing in IT? What if you find that you want to move in a completely different direction?

(Disclaimer: I took a Myers-Briggs test in a class two weeks ago and have been thinking WAY too much about the results.)

 

[shoalcreek]

I wholeheartedly understand the desire to leave IT nowadays. I honestly don't think I will ever get out of this career what I have put into it. It is equally frustating to see people who are much dumber than I am and people who have pretty lousy work ethics do better than I have done.

At the same time, I have no idea where I would go. I have no idea what career I would choose.

I had career growth for about a year, and that ended in 1999. I took a job in late 1998 for $30,000 and am now making only about $42,000. It has been a fight just to keep my salary at that level. It's not like I have stayed at the same company or job during all that time, which would have been better than all the pain and suffering I've went through. When I did my taxes for 2007, my income was only about $15,000.

If I was still progressing and growing, I would be just fine with this career. I am quite confident that I could have been a CCIE by now. The problem is quite simple--nobody has ever given me a chance to be successful. Instead, I am still doing mostly help-desk work.

Most telling is the fact that my home PC is six years old now. I have bought parts, but have little interest in building my new system. I simply have no interest in "playing" with computers anymore.

I used to like the work. I consider it noble work. For about two years or so, I committed to spend one hour per day reading something. I eventually got my MCSE on NT 4.0, then found that it was totally worthless. The bottom line--nobody cares if you make an honest effort to improve yourself.

It will take a lot to get my passion back. A job at about $70,000 per year WITH A FORTY-HOUR WORK-WEEK would be a good start. I would also need a job with opportunities to grow and advance in this career--a chance to use the 135 IQ that I have.

 

[kmcferrin]

It is equally frustating to see people who are much dumber than I am and people who have pretty lousy work ethics do better than I have done.

I agree, but if you are smarter than these people and have a better work ethic, you have to ask yourself how those people are able to do better than you are doing. Are they gaming the system somehow? Is it the "old boys" network? Because in my experience quality eventually wins out, if you have a chance to prove your quality.

Don't get me wrong, I have spent a lot of time learning how to "play the system" as well. I'm not dishonest about things, but I make damn sure that I know how to compete. If that means schmoozing the right people, or getting certifications, or whatever it takes then I do it.

For example, my employer has a meeting once a week for all recruiters, salespeople, management, and so on. It's basically everyone but the consultants, and they use it to plan strategies, project resources, and talk about what's going on in different areas of the company. Since I'm not a part of that group I rarely get face time with upper management, so last year I made it my personal goal to get my name mentioned in that meeting as often as possible. Sometimes they just mention that I got a new certification, sometimes it's that I referred a candidate or a customer to to the company. I try to do some public speaking events every couple of months at local technical schools and make sure that management knows when I do it. It may seem simple-minded, but the more often that management hears my name associated with positive events the faster my perceived value rises.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[shoalcreek]

I agree, but if you are smarter than these people and have a better work ethic, you have to ask yourself how those people are able to do better than you are doing. Are they gaming the system somehow?

I am convinced that success or failure in any career (not just IT) is based mostly on how good or bad a manipulator the person is. The best manipulators rise to the top. The other thing here to remember is that being a "good manipulator" is largely based on your non-verbal communication.

I have spent years studying this kind of stuff--Silva mind control, neuro-linguistic programming, hypnosis, acting, and the "seduction community." I have been a Toastmaster for six years, too.

My main problem is that I don't seem to be willing to apply this stuff. There is a part of me that still desperately wants to believe that quality does win out. I have also been a Toastmaster for six years.

As a result, I have considered coaching. I also like the people I have met in my NLP and hypnosis studies. Acting classes are an absolute goldmine if you want to meet smart, attractive women. This stuff is actually fun, everything IT used to be.

 

[Dollie]

Have some of us simply jumped the shark, with the shark being the drastic changes in technology happening between 1995 and 2005? Now that things are settling down a bit for office systems (unless you're stuck with a new CRM or ERP system), have jobs turned into maintenance positions instead of development?

These questions are just rhetorical, but something I thought of while reading through the last several responses.

And jsisley, you've found the perfect forum to discuss this. My IT job is staying just as it is for a while, while I attend school. I'll be lucky to have an Associate degree by the time I'm 50, so I'm looking at a bachelor's degree by 60 unless there is some way I can pay someone to take classes for me! Hrm, I may be on to something there...

 

[anationalacrobat]

It does seem like the BS artists tend to succeed. I can't understand how someone can be personally in charge of a debacle and get a promotion out of it. "Failing upwards," they call it. Looking at the careers of the people I've worked with and held in the greatest contempt, it's completely astounding. They leave their last company in a situation like the Titanic just after it struck the berg, fatally wounded but the passengers all still blissfully unaware. The parasite arrives at my company, in charge of Marketing, and from the organization to the ground like a cheetah pouncing on a gazelle. Amidst the dust and tumble of the fall, he kicks free, leaving us in the victimized company bleeding, broken and dazed as he bounds off for some other company to destroy.

At the dot.com I was at, our salesmen were grand masters of BS. For a nothing company, we were talking with some major players and making tremendous deals. Of course, we completely lacked the technology to follow through on what we promised but holy crap, with the investment money we were raking in we could have developed it! But that wasn't what they were into. It was a typical "The Producers" scheme of getting a ton of investment money, sucking it out of the company via salary, bonuses, and other perks, then declaring bankruptcy, dems the breaks, so sorry and thanks for playing.

The thing is, this is not just an IT problem, it's an everywhere problem. The only reason why us geeks tend to think of it as IT-specific is because this is where we're seeing it and we'd like to imagine that the grass is greener somewhere else. It isn't.

 

[shoalcreek]

What I see in IT is a lot of what I call "entrenched mediocrities." These are people who have been with a company for a while. Anytime anyone who might be better comes in, these entrenched mediocrities sabotage the new people. Sometimes it is out of malice, and sometimes it is out of stupidity.

I have been on several jobs where the old employees actually complained that I was asking "too many" questions. I just wanted to learn the job and figured these jerks would actually help out--that's called teamwork. One even threatened me. These jobs didn't last more than four months. I have also been in cases where I have been given the wrong advice by an older employee.

I still don't think it's a problem everywhere. I've worked elsewhere and didn't see this kind of garbage. I often tell people that in IT, the bad drives out the good.

 

[anationalacrobat]

Entrenched mediocrities" are not just in IT, but what you describe is exactly what happens. I worked a night job with a guy who was working with the state during the day. He said that when he started at the state office he was a real go-getter, trying to get noticed. One of the older guys in the shop took him aside and said something along the lines of it being a good idea for him to quit trying to stand out. "You're making us look bad." He took that as a he-he ha-ha kind of comment but then realized it was made in deadly earnestness. He would have been shown the door on some pretext if he kept it up.

There's also cursed cliquishness. I've lost a job for nothing more than not being part of the clique. Now the skeptical would ask "Were you possibly self-sabotaging by being the unfriendly computer guy, telling boorish jokes, acting creepy, muttering to yourself about your stapler, etc?" Those are the questions usually asked when someone says he's being conspired against. Nope. The department I was in was small, all women, and known for cliquish behavior. After I was hired I found out that the position was a revolving door. The clique decided they didn't like me and invented enough infractions until I was shown the door. My sister has seen the kind of craziness where one woman will see another as competition for the affections of another man in the department and will work to get her fired to have a better shot, even if the odds of the guy actually showing interest are minute! Not that men are innocent of such douchebaggery, no no no.

Something I've seen in many places is someone just deciding they don't like another person and riding their butt until they either quit or get fired. In IT positions, it's easy to make another person look or feel stupid, especially when the job requires specific information related to the organization that cannot be looked up in any book but must be shared by the guy who hates the other guy. He doesn't share, the newer hire looks like he's not keeping up with his duties, and everything goes downhill from there. Setup a hostile work environment and I guarantee good techs will not even be able to remember their names, let alone their computer knowledge. Anyone could be made to look poor in such a place. And if the reason why the senior guy hates you is because he's an entrenched mediocrity and scared of your skills, you'll likely be fired unless management is already sick of the senior guy.

 

[jsisley]

I had a similar situation at my previous job. It was not an IT-job, it was an Admin job. I was hired to be a second Exec Asst in the department. The other Exec Asst is very assertive/aggressive and I'm not that way - this was probably the biggest problem. My knowledge of all things MS Office was far greater than the other admin. All the time she was telling me how she wanted to "groom" me to be the "go to" person in the department, but everything she ever said to me was more of a left-handed put down than anything else. I was hired because of my PC skills and admin experience (20 + years), but she made me feel like this was my first job. It was terrible. It was no secret that her PC skills were not as good as mine - people she was supposed to support would come to me to get their Powerpoints or Visio documents done - correctly and in a timely manner and I always delivered. The group was very clique-ish and the other Admin would try to give me the impression that she was my "friend," but I never bought it because I saw the kinds of things she did - backstabbing, making fun behind someone else's back, etc. I was probably doomed from the get-go, because I do think that my being there might have intimidated her (though I never knowingly did anything to do this to her). Not only that, she and the Management Team of the department all hung out together socially. If I had wanted to speak to my boss about some of the issues with her, I'm not sure they would have taken it seriously because she is their "friend...." It got worse and worse then finally I got my one year review - on the last day of the two-week notice I had given about a week before my one year anniversary. I'm now in more of an IT-job and the company for which I work is much better. I know it could have been partly my fault (I can be a pain in the A$$ at times and I know that), but I've never worked with anyone quite like that before - and hopefully never again.

JoAnn

 

[shoalcreek]

"You're making us look bad."

I had something like that happen. My supervisor (with 20 years experience) and his buddy of six years couldn't install a program. They were on it all day. I did it in about two hours.

Sometimes it does work the other way. I had a good reputation at my hotel. It was partially because I corrected other people's mistakes. I think management did notice that, as I got away with some things that were big mistakes.

I read some stuff lately about Pete Best. If you don't know, he was the original drummer for the Beatles. He was apparently the most popular of them as well. This apparently the reason he was fired, the women liked him too much.

The department I was in was small, all women, and known for cliquish behavior.

I had a situation in which I was the only single male in a group of married men.

My sister has seen the kind of craziness where one woman will see another as competition for the affections of another man in the department and will work to get her fired to have a better shot, even if the odds of the guy actually showing interest are minute! Not that men are innocent of such douchebaggery, no no no.

Oh, I believe that. Women treat women much worse than men treat women. No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Setup a hostile work environment and I guarantee good techs will not even be able to remember their names, let alone their computer knowledge.

The main problem is that many IT environments are hostile environments. When I worked in the hotel business, the guy who trained me on the desk was a big a--hole. However, he was a professional. He knew that his job was to train me. He did his job.

 

[anationalacrobat]

The main problem is that many IT environments are hostile environments. When I worked in the hotel business, the guy who trained me on the desk was a big a--hole. However, he was a professional. He knew that his job was to train me. He did his job.

My first job out of high school was like that. I worked in a restaurant. The manager was extremely knowledgeable in all things concerning the business and if he told you something, you couldn't argue with him because he really was right. But the way he told you, ugh! He could tell you to eat a juicy steak in such a fashion you'd sooner throw it back in his face. He maintained that it wasn't his job to be camp counselor and make people feel good, if someone needs hollerin' at, he's gonna do some hollerin'. Again, ugh. People don't work that way. I think it's actually easier to work under a yelling idiot than a yelling professional because at least with the idiot, you know he's an idiot and can laugh it off. When the professional points out a genuine mistake and does so like he's auditioning for Full Metal Jacket, the embarrassment quickly curdles into rage.

Now if the guy was just a little gruff but told you what he expected and rewarded you for meeting those expectations, all would have been fine. But that's just the way he was. Funny story about the guy, one of the other cooks came in and said "Man, I'd just been to the liquor store across the street. The guy sees my hat and goes 'Oh, you work at that restaurant across the street? Yeah, the manager comes in here all the time, buys a fifth of vodka dependable as clockwork.'" A fifth a day? His liver must be pickled.

 

[kmcferrin]

No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Funny...that's where I met my wife.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[Bandenjamin]

No man is stupid enough to try to get a woman in his office nowadays anyway.

Funny...that's where I met my wife.

Funny....That's where I met the woman I'm marrying in 9 days

Also the girl I was seeing before I met my soon to be wife

--Dan
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain

 

[anationalacrobat]

Good luck to you both. But it's also where many have met their doom due to the politics of office romance. At my current place, a man lost his job when he took a flirty relationship more seriously than she did -- but that story can vary depending on who you talk to. The long and the short of it was that this relationship turned into a kerfluffle that got him fired.

 

[shoalcreek]

But it's also where many have met their doom due to the politics of office romance. At my current place, a man lost his job when he took a flirty relationship more seriously than she did -- but that story can vary depending on who you talk to.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a performance review, reprimand, write-up, termination, or court case. I also had a case where a woman complained about something I had said--I stopped talking to her. Then, she complained that I wasn't talking to her.

I've considered keeping a voice recorder in my pocket and recording everything I say during the typical work day. That way, if something like this comes up, I hope I could use it as protection. I always know that the truth is on my side.

One self-help guru I know tells a story about how he got in trouble for simply asking a woman what she was doing for the weekend. The woman construed this as asking for a date. He had no interest in this woman.

My policy on office relationships is that I will consider one only if the woman initiates it. I will have her swear that nobody else in the office knows about it.

 

[stubnski]

...I will have her swear that nobody else in the office knows about it.

We all know that a woman cannot keep a secret


Stubnski

 

[Dollie]

As soon as I think of a good comeback, I'll let you know.

 

[LFCfan]

I've got one Dollie, but I ain't tellin'

~LFCfan