Dos and Donts on a resume? 1

[Karl Blessing]

I'm wanting to fix up a resume in the future for a job in the michigan area(Currently in North Carolina), this current job I came in at entry level, I dont have an old copy of the resume, so I'll have to make one up from scratch, Though sounds like a simple idea, wondering if any of you had some what of a Dos and Donts concerning a Resume, Of course the type of position I'll be looking for is Programmer/Software Engineer, so far the highlight skills I've picked up from this current job is ASP, VB, VBscript, ActiveX, so forth, but you can also see from my signature I'm familiar with other aspects. Also like other than just contact information, what else is good to have in a Resume, from what I did before, Contact, Goals, Education, Employment history, and usally a final catagories of Skills picked up either by selftaught or in the job market. Any sugestions? <p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href=

http://kb244.com>

</a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

 

[fenris]

The thing that I learned about resumes is that they should be taylored to the job you are applying for. What I did was create a &quot;master&quot; resume with all my skills, experience, certificates, etc. on it. From this master resume I produce custom resumes for each job (Generally they will include skills that are pertinent to the job, for the most part there won't be much difference between the resumes as all the jobs you apply for will be similar). For example if the job you want states that they want someone with x number of yeras experience in vb6 as well as asp, you would emphasis your experience and skills in these areas and also elaborate on them in the cover letter. Other then that, your experience and skills should sell you.<br><br>Another section that you might want to add in is a hobbies section (other then computers is a good idea).<br><br>Hope this helps.....<br>I would also like to hear some general types from the people out there who actually do the hiring and what they look for. <p>Troy Williams B.Eng.<br><a href=mailto:fenris@hotmail.com>fenris@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>

 

[NedLudd]

I have to disagree on the hobbies section - I've done quite a bit of hiring and that would strike me as unprofessional.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;What I would add is that the old &quot;rule&quot; of sticking to a single page is not set in stone for the IT world.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't pad if you don't have a lot of experience, but also don't feel like you have to cram everything onto a single page.&nbsp;&nbsp;I've seen people with 15+ years of experience present a single page resume and to me that just looks dumb!<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Be specific in your achievements and responsibilities, bullet the points and put 2-4 per job.&nbsp;&nbsp;You might also want to put an &quot;experience&quot; section and a &quot;skills&quot; or &quot;technologies&quot; section so information can be found either way.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, the whole thing is very personal and you do risk the possibility that some HR drone refuses to read past one page.......<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Good Luck!<br>

 

[fenris]

Ned, I hope I get someone like you reading my resumes. I like the idea that a resume doesn't have to stick to one page. Might I ask your opinion, what do you think about resumes on alternative media, ie email, cd-roms and web-pages(not necessarily on their own, but in conjunction with each other)? I heard of people presenting a portfolio of their work on cd-rom to prospective employers, is this a good idea or will it be bypassed? <p>Troy Williams B.Eng.<br><a href=mailto:fenris@hotmail.com>fenris@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>

 

[NedLudd]

I think it depends on what it is you are doing.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you are a web designer, I think that a homepage or email with hyperlinks to work you have done would be a good thing.&nbsp;&nbsp;CD-ROMs, I think might be overkill, although I have seen some very cool business card sized CD-ROMS that have printing on them, but can also be put into a CD Tray.&nbsp;&nbsp;That would probably be a big expense.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;For programming, I guess that offering more information in an alternative format is a good thing.&nbsp;&nbsp;If someone doesn't look at it, then nothing lost and it's probably a good exercise to put together the home page or list of hyperlinks, anyway.

 

[Zelandakh]

I have been reviewing hundreds of CVs for a position I have just filled. Here are the important things that I look for:<br><br>Never lie. If you say &quot;very experienced in&quot;... you will annoy poeple if you aren't.<br>Make it clear - layout is everything. Don't squash text, use a sensible font, make intelligent use of bullet points and so on. Only use a maximum of 3 fonts, preferably less, and don't use italic.<br>Don't waffle, especially in IT!<br>One page if you are young, two pages after your second main company or thereabouts. 6 pages is a bit long (don't laugh, someone did!). <br>Don't use big banners. Keep to 10 and 12 point and horizontal!<br>Don't make jokes. If you must put your hobbies on (and it does make you more of a human!) don't just list computers cos it makes you look sad and don't say anything like &quot;And I love PCs&quot;.<br><br>Right - the last one is the one that sorts the men from the boys and PAY ATTENTION. Spell check your CV before sending it!!! Get a friend who is good at English to read through it too. <p>Zel<br><a href=mailto:zel@zelandakh.co.uk>zel@zelandakh.co.uk</a><br><a href= > </a><br>

 

[tonykerr]

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In my time I have written many resumes, and reviewed many (100/100), Short and sweet is the key.<br><br>Personal information<br>name<br>address <br>phone<br><br>Education<br>high school<br>college<br><br>Work experience<br>company name<br>duties/experiences/dates<br><br>Skills (certifications if you have them)<br><br>Referances<br>Furnished upon request &lt; this will get you in.<br><br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Be simple, so they can ask questions.<br>

 

[Karl Blessing]

Seems if I combine Tony and Zel's approach I should be good to go (heh I havent even started my resume yet, just waiting form some replies) in any case do you feel it would be appropiate to post my resume on this thread (ommiting some info like addy and all) for critiqueing from you guys, to see if I got the idea? <p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href=

http://kb244.com>

</a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

 

[David]

kb244,<br><br>No.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't post your resume on Tek-Tips.<br><br>There are thousands of resume sites and services on the Internet with thousands of examples to look at.&nbsp;&nbsp;Most respectable career sites will have a &quot;how to&quot; on resume writing too...<br><br>Anyone wanting to talk with me about why we don't want resumes posted on Tek-Tips can e-mail me directly at <A HREF="mailto:dmurphy@tecumsehgroup.com">dmurphy@tecumsehgroup.com</A> .<br><br>Dave<br><br>

 

[bigscouse]

Though you do not need to stick to one page most people rarely look beyond the first unless you have got their attention. That first page has to hit home, make sure you get as much key info on there as possible.<br> <p>Ged Jones<br><a href=mailto:gedejones@hotmail.com>gedejones@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>

 

[markSaunders]

a little trick i was recently advised to use was if the company you intend to apply to has a web site (or even printed brochure etc.) then check it out.<br><br>when you do your cv and application letter then bear in mind the style of the media the company uses - i DONT mean put read borders and blue text! - but the language, depth of descriptions etc can often reflect on company culture. - even better if the expected recipient of the cv has a 'personal' page within the company set.<br><br>remember information is power and the more information you have on them, the more relevant you can make the information from you.<br> <p> Mark Saunders

 

[MiggyD]

Very good point Mark. I had forgotten that this is how I got into my first job.

Karl, heed Mark's response. Nothing makes a good impression on a job interview, unless you know something about their company.

They will think that you have done some reseach on them (and their competitors) and found them to be the BEST (and so they may in-fact be) in their particulare field of business.

 

[NedLudd]

Regarding the &quot;references furnished on request&quot;: What the hell does this mean? OF COURSE you'll give me references if I ask for them, otherwise I won't hire you. This phrase has always struck me as completely superfluous and a sign that people are just using a template. If you want to put references in your resume go ahead, if not don't waste space with this stupid phrase.
(Can you tell this bugs me?)

Actually, as I think more about this, perhaps this also ilustrates a wider point. Almost anything you do in a resume will turn off some people and attract others, so you should probably take all this advice with a pinch of salt and present a resume which reflects what YOU think is good and important and stylistically correct.

 

[Karl Blessing]

I think the references upon request, generally means that you do have references, they are just not listed on the resume, so &quot;request&quot; them.

 

[markSaunders]

a little harsh methinks?

i do recall having sent (or certainly considered sending) cv's without the references listed - this could be because you have not had time to approach the person(s) concerned to confirm (even just out of sheer formality) they don't mind sending a[nother] reference!

i think if the advert was to state that referees will not be approached without your permission then there is no excuse for missing them off and i, too, would treat these applications as time wasters (i mean, expecting me to chase up people to complete their application!?!).

having read NedLudds comment and realising that many people may in fact feel this way i would now be more inclined to make an informal call to confirm that referees would not be chased up until specific permission was granted from you.

- rememeber it's always in YOUR interest to ensure your referees are kept up to speed with the type of job you are applying for it reminds them you take it seriously and they may have to construct a reference for 'that particular' job.

cheers
m

 

[Karl Blessing]

You all make wonderful points,however in my opinion in a fast pace job market , especially in the technical field, I think having a Skill summary would work best most of the time, these employers probally go through many many resumes every week, sumarizing most of it may help them find potentials, then they follow up on the potentials. So it's kind of a debate how much information is really needed, and how little is too little. etc at the point I have sent a resume to my dad for him to review over, it has the follow sections.

[tt]
centered alignment begin
Company Name
Company Address
Office Number
Office Email
[This will be changed to my own personal info of course]
centered alignment ends
left alignment begins
My Name
Skill Summary
Software
...
Languages:
...
Professional
Experience
Date, Company, Placep
Position
bulleted list of task and infomation
Education
Year School City,State
Educational information, such as ranking, courses, etc
[/tt]


That is the modified resume format that my company has made when presenting it to the State (the people we contract for) I am using this as my block of clay for now, and will mold it to more fine details.

 

[bigscouse]

I think the key is to know who you are approaching and tailor your C.V. accordingly. All key requirements must ne on page 1 to catch there attention. The rest can follow.

Remember to put some key acheivemnts to impress i.e. competed Y2K project successfully and under budget. Recomended and implemented improvements that saved $100,000, or improved sales 20% with ammendments to web page design etc.....
Saving and/or generating money always catches the eye.

 

[fenris]

I good cover letter shouldn't be overlooked as this gives you a chance to explain your skills and ecomplishments in geater detail. What I did was to make a 4 page cover letter, that is somewhat modular that explains every asspect of my resume. Of course I don't give the whole thing to prespective employers, I cut out what is unnecessary for that particualar situation and rewrite the remaining parts, if they require it(with me they could always be done better ). In about two and a half hours I will be going for another interview. I was told by another interviewer that they were impressed with my cover letter.

I must say good luck to you on your quest, you shouldn't have a problem finding a job. I think your problem will be picking from the numerous offers!

 

[skoobz]

FOR [seeking] ENTRY-LEVEL-

For those of you whom may be where I was not to long ago, heres the DL on my story-

-I had NEVER worked in the IT field
-I KNEW I whanted to git into de netwhorkin arena

Fed up with lack of places to get [in-depth nitty-gritty] education (I am not talking about~take 'these' 3 classes and get your MCSE- but institutional, inst-led trng/edu/lab), I quit collage 28 May 2K. @ this point I knew NOTHING about networking (I taught my self PC stuff a while ago). I bought what I thought I needed/studied my azz off (600 hours +/-100), and on 27 Jun, I became a CCNA.
Yeah, thats right: i knew absolutly nothing about networking, and less than one month latter, CCNA Staus!

JOB HUNTIN: [had a] nice resume (fer no experiance) and I called d#%n near every place in the yellow pages that was IT related, and found out who in my area delt in Cisco produktz. One pertucular headhunter called me WITH ADVICE:
she said, target your resume to;
->non-profit agencys (they dont have da loot to keep peepz when day git experianced)
->24-7 places (da 'big dawgz' prefer 9-5...leaving possible oppertunity fer sumone whid sum what-tever-id-takez)
->healthcare placez

The bit advice she gave me that really helped me to secure the job i have: markert yer self 'willing' to:
->do an internship type thing
->job, obiously and...
heck....i'll grab my cover letter, that sums it up phine

Yer name
addrezz
Liverpool, NY 13090

Greetings,

My name is Martin Wills, and I am a Cisco Certified Networking Associate (CCNA) as of Aug 2K. Although, at the time of this writing, I do not have professional experience, I am actively seeking the following;
(1) a volunteer network systems administration position
(2) an internship “type” position (I am not in school)
(3) a job

My aim is to put myself in a position that would allow me some hands-on experience with Cisco Systems routers and/or switches. I am also in the process of studying for both the Microsoft Certified System Engineer exams, and the Cisco Certified Design Associate exam. I am hoping that I can get some time working with servers (web/DHCP,etc), in a file/printer sharing environment. More important to me, I would like to work with as much OSI L-3 hardware as possible. Also noteworthy, I own a PII 366MHz laptop PC that I am willing to use at my own risk. I am a fast learner, in need of exposure to attain added proficiency in the networking arena, so I may be in a position to take the Cisco Certified Network Professional exams in less than 2 years. I would be willing to work/volunteer for any 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shift position if available. Given an volunteer/internship opportunity, I would eventually like to have a letter stating nothing more than an honest assessment of my skills. In the future, I would be using the letter to help secure a job opportunity with a perspective employer.
My contact information is listed below. My home number is often busy, as I am constantly utilizing the line for dial-up Internet Service, faxing, and making phone calls. In the event of a busy signal, I might recommend calling my pager and leaving a voice mail message that I will receive immediately.
I appreciate any time & energy you and/or anyone in you organization might invest in helping me find the type of opportunity I am looking for.




Respectfully submitted,


J. Martin Wills

Contact:

(home) xxx.xxx.xxxx.
(pgr/V-mail) xxx.xxx.xxxx
(E-mail) J_Martin45@hotmail.com

That letter had MAD impact on landing me a $28K p/y (~$30K, me thinkz, is the national avg (and THAT is based on peepz who, generally speaking, have problably at least a year of experiance))job. Plus full med/dental/vision/401K/etc. This company is sending me to instructor led traing to git my CCNP in less than 3 months on da job. Best of all...my routine day is playing whith Cisco switches/routers fer HOURS! I do some assist whid net admin as well. Dont get discouraged...YER job is [probably] out dare. I HOPE diz helps sumone.

peace

skoobz

 

[Karl Blessing]

skoobz, I am currently at or higher than you are far as the pay go, and 30K a year is definitly not national average, according to one site (I'll have to dig up the URLs) The average pay for a person whose had around 1 year experience, and only a high school degree, is anywhere from 45K to 50K a year,(I kind of found it boggeling) for a Programmer, not sure about other IT fields such as Networking(which pays much more than programming in my opinion) the point seems though, that you got where you wanted, and yer content with the field of choice, I enjoy my work, but I'm getting rather tight of money, which is why I am considering other options, I have not yet sent my resume in anywhere as of yet, I just paid off hearing aids, which certainly poped me down as for my other bills I'll have to double pay next month, and ride out that month and I'll be back on normal schedule, but in any case College is a big help if you actually get through it , it not only says what you may or may not know, but it reflects on your commitment to actually finish something you start, I have not gotten into college yet, but I plan to, I will first need to hop to a better job, that will least give me the living pay to attend college while working. I'm sure many people will agree with me when I say this, but when getting a Job , you get a job based on a living pay, but also a Job that you enjoy doing, it doesnt do you much good to study hard to get into a job that pays say 90K a year, but you dont like the job, and the hours are tight, where you could be living just as well on a 40K with a job you enjoy. When the time comes for me to send out my resume , I doubt I'll have much problems, other than the college factor (getting least a year experience, is a helpful plus) especially since in North Carolina the unemployment rate is less than a percent or so (Might be good to investigate your area, helps you understand how tollerate or desperate a local employer may be)

In any case your information may be helpful to the many that have a hard time just getting started.