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Does XP support 16 bit DOS programs?

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dholbrook

dholbrook

IS-IT--Management
Jan 23, 2003
295
US
I have been trying to install an old DOS (16 bit) program (Roots III), to run under WIN XP. WHile the program runs very well under WIN 98, it always fails after the install with an "insufficient memory" type error message, on a new XP system with 512 MB of RAM. I suspect that XP just will not run the 16 bit programs anymore. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks,
David Holbrook
 
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Officially as the successor to Win9x/ME, XP does not support 16-bit DOS processes. It is MS's attempt to push for complete 32-bit stability, along with eventual incentive to move to 64-bit.

You can, however, right-click the DOS executable and go to Properties. There should be a "Compatibility Mode" tab that allows you to tell XP to treat this program as if it were running under Windows 95 or 98. That may or may not help.

In the end, XP stands a much better chance than NT 4.0 or 2000 when it comes to running older 16-bit programs. However, the "chance" is far from a guarantee.

~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
 
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cdogg,

Thanks, but I already tried to use the Win 95 setting, it made no difference. I suspect that XP will just not support the program. Glad I tried it on a new system before upgrading the existing WIN98 and then finding nothing would work. This ROOTS3 program runs data gathered over the last 10 years or so, so losing it would be a horrible problem! So much for "Progress!"

Thanks,

David
 
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Did you install this program on XP as an Administrator User?

XP runs a lot of 16 bit software, see if these articles help you.

222975 - Cannot Install Program Using Its Setup Utility

314495 - How to Troubleshoot 16-Bit Windows Programs in Windows XP

314106 - Troubleshooting MS-DOS-Based Programs in Windows

314452 - "16 Bit MS-DOS Subsystem" Error Message When You Install a Program

320127 - HOW TO: Identify a 16-bit Program in Windows XP

324767 - Error Message When You Install or Start an MS-DOS or 16-Bit Windows Based Program


Is ROOTS3 a genealogical program? If so this link may or may not be worth checking.

 
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dlinney,

Thanks for the input. I have looked at all you suggested. While none seem to be the issue I have encountered, they do seem to indicate it should be possible to run (at least SOME) 16 bit programs under XP.

Roots3 is an older version of a genealogical program that was bought out by another company, then removed from the market place, and no longer exists, so there is no support from the original progam writers. However, it also happens to have some very nice features that later versions (like Roots5) did not support.

The installation of the software does not require you to be an adinistrator, since the DOS based program simply copies the software to a directory on the hard drive, it does not install under the OS directly (remember how simple things used to be?).

The error message I receive is "insufficient memory to run the application", which is meaningless as the new system has plenty of memory and space, and the program does not modify either the autoexec or configurtation files, as far as I can determine (there are no entries in the Win98 files either).

I will keep digging, and maybe someone out there has resolved this.

Thanks,

David
 
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The user may have to be an Administrator or have suitable permissions to have write access to various XP files that Roots3 needs to run correctly once it is installed.

How do you start this program? Is it one that has to be started from a Command Prompt?


Any clues here?



 
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linnney,

Thank you, this mught be the right clue (from COmputing.net)!

I will have to try the registry setting to force all 16 bit apps to run in their own space.

The Roots3.exe program is launched from a command line (or from an icon on the desktop which basically runs the command: C:\roots3\roots3.exe <database to be used>. It runs in the same directory as the database, or the <database to be used> command has to point to the correct directory where the database file resides (remember, this is an old DOS program!).

A search on MS Technet (Microsoft Knowledge Base Article - 86230) also brings up the possibility that this is a memory allocation issue involving the first 1 MB od memory (the only which DOS originally recognized). I willhave to look into this also.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

David

 
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I wouldn't be surprised if the program needs expanded - not extended - memory to run. I had similar problems running an old game - 1830. My solution was to make a boot disk that loaded the old EMM386.sys to make the expanded memory. Booting from the floppy the game ran fine. You should be able to get a boot disk from - then edit config.sys to load emm386.sys.

Kim.

'Everybody is ignorant - only on different subjects.'
Will Rogers.
 
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p.s. - This will only work if the drive that you have the program on isn't NTFS! Otherwise you won't be able to see the drive from DOS.

Kim.

'Everybody is ignorant - only on different subjects.'
Will Rogers.
 
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KimLeech,
Thanks for the thoughts, but this willnot work, the systems is set to be NTFS5.

Is'nt it amazing when we want to keep the old &quot;simple&quot; applications, then we have have to do something equivilant to running a 10 MegaWatt generator to power a single 60 watt lightbulb! Just goes to show that all &quot;progress&quot; is not necessarily needed or good.

Thanks for the thoughts,

David
 
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dholbrook,
I know it's probably not the best solution, but you can setup a dual-boot system on your PC to have both Win98 and WinXP. You would just need to create a FAT32 paritition for 98, install it, and use a 3rd-party boot manager utility that runs at startup.

Now I know there are some reading this right now thinking, &quot;Wait a sec, you don't necessarily need to have a 3rd-pary boot program&quot;, and they're right. However, in order to get around it, you would have to install Windows 98 on the primary boot partition (FAT32), and move Windows XP over to another logical NTFS partition. That just seems too tedious not to spend $20 on a decent program (like BootMagic) to manage it.

~cdogg
[tab]&quot;All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind&quot;
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
 
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cdogg,

You are right, but it is not my system, it belongs to my sister, who is a total non-technical person. The system is also already an all NTFS partition.

Dual boots should be done with the older Win 98 installed first in a small C: partition, then a second partition used for XP. If you install XP on a Fat32 partition also, then WIN 98 can still see the second partition to still access files, etc. Otherwise you need to be sure to give WIN 98 enought disk space for all its work area also. This is not a real problem with todays large drives, but is a problem on older systems. The XP boot.ini will do just fine to be the boot manager in this type dual boot arrangement.

However,......this is not an option in my case!

Thanks for the thoughts though.

David
 
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&quot;[blue]Dual boots should be done with the older Win 98 installed first in a small C: partition, then a second partition used for XP[/blue]&quot;

Yes, I thought I cleared that up in my last post. Of course they &quot;should be&quot; done in that fashion, but I was pointing out that they didn't &quot;have to be&quot; done that way when time is of the essence.

Oh well, it was worth a shot!
 
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Hi -
Well the only suggestion I can make is to use a partition program to resize your NTFS down a little. Create a new, small FAT32 partition, and install - or probably just copy - the DOS program to it. Then you can boot to DOS from floppy (you don't need to install a full 98 for this - just a boot disk with the correct config.sys/autoexec.bat and himem.sys and emm386.sys on the floppy will do) That will give DOS a drive that it can read and you should be alright. It sounds like a lot to do - and probably is! It depends how badly you want the program! Just remember that any drivers, for instance for your mouse, will also have to be loaded from the autoexec.bat or config.sys - so you will also need an old mouse driver like msmouse.exe on the floppy. If your keyboard or mouse is USB - you won't be able to do it.

Kim.

'Everybody is ignorant - only on different subjects.'
Will Rogers.
 
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Hi again -
I just thought of a possibly more elegant solution!
Burn the program to CD. Include DOS support for a cd drive (if I remember correctly you'll need mscdex.sys for this)on the DOS boot disk. Then you should be able to run the program from CD - and you won't need to change your hard drive. However you mentioned that the program also uses a database file - that you will have to keep on the a: drive so you can write to it, so I suppose this solution will depend on wether you can change the program settings to do that - and, how big the database file is! Just a thought!!

Kim.

'Everybody is ignorant - only on different subjects.'
Will Rogers.
 
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Hai,

FWIW

I had a simular problem. Same error.
The dos program didn't start because it was not on exactly the same location as it was on the old machine.
Also point the startup dir to the data dir.

Gr.

 
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