I'm a new member here... I just really have a simple question thats why I became a member....but my question is...to get a job in this field do I need a college degree? Do all jobs require a college degree? I feel as though certifications shold be enough...But what do I know right? Most of the jobs I see posted on job boards require a college degree...I am going to attend college but I have to support myself and work my way thru college this is why I am asking this
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Do I need a degree? 2
- Thread starter Mv08e
- Start date
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1
- #2
No, you don't need a degree. But - not having a degree may limit your opportunities.
Certifications are nice, but experience if better than both.
Pat Richard
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Certifications are nice, but experience if better than both.
Pat Richard
Microsoft Exchange MVP
I emphatically disagree. I'm in a high level engineering position. I design multi-million dollar solutions for many companies you've heard of.
No degree. In fact, neither my current and previous employers even asked about educational history. And I don't have any regret about not having one.
My current employer has asked if I'd like to move up to middle management. No requirement for a degree.
It's not needed. It might open some doors, but there are many already open.
Pat Richard
Microsoft Exchange MVP
No degree. In fact, neither my current and previous employers even asked about educational history. And I don't have any regret about not having one.
My current employer has asked if I'd like to move up to middle management. No requirement for a degree.
It's not needed. It might open some doors, but there are many already open.
Pat Richard
Microsoft Exchange MVP
A degree may or may not open the door. It's more about critical thinking, and the ability to learn on the fly. I've been programming since 1993 and recently got an associate degree at a local community college in programming. No change in salary. I mostly did it because it was offered for free through work, and was an opportunity to get up to speed in new tech and get paid comp time for classroom hours.
All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Having a degree doesn't mean you can do the work and not having one doesn't mean you can't. I know lots of people who do not have degrees who are doing as well as those who have them.
The problem is getting your first job. Once you've gotten it and proven yourself, you don't need a degree anymore unless you're changing jobs.
Some agencies use it as a way of thinning down the number of applicants. They have quotes like "a 1st or 2nd class degree from a red brick university" i.e. one of the older unis in the UK. So, even if you have a degree, if it isn't from some specified uni or a 1st or a 2nd, they won't even consider you. A bit snooty in my opinion.
Some companies use it as a way of deciding pay rises. Again, a bit misguided - they should be doing it on merit rather than qualifications but it is their money so they allocate it however they wish.
If it is something you've always wanted, be it of any use or not, then go for it otherwise you will never be happy. You have some sense of achievement when you do get it.
The problem is getting your first job. Once you've gotten it and proven yourself, you don't need a degree anymore unless you're changing jobs.
Some agencies use it as a way of thinning down the number of applicants. They have quotes like "a 1st or 2nd class degree from a red brick university" i.e. one of the older unis in the UK. So, even if you have a degree, if it isn't from some specified uni or a 1st or a 2nd, they won't even consider you. A bit snooty in my opinion.
Some companies use it as a way of deciding pay rises. Again, a bit misguided - they should be doing it on merit rather than qualifications but it is their money so they allocate it however they wish.
If it is something you've always wanted, be it of any use or not, then go for it otherwise you will never be happy. You have some sense of achievement when you do get it.
acewarlock
Technical User
I have had a least 10 job over the last 50 years that required a higher degree and I have about 1 year of Comm College and a Tech Diploma in electronics. I have gotten every one of those job's without one. I guess it's just a case of, I had what they needed and the one's with the degree didn't. I guess it could go either way.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
- Thread starter
- #8
Ascalonian
Programmer
My personal belief is "Education opens doors, but experience and skill is what gets you the job
I would have to agree with most of the responses so far, No you don't need a degree to obtain a position. Intelligence, experience, networking, a good work ethic, and curiosity can carry you pretty far.
That being said, I would suggest you look at your long term plans, if you're young and plan on staying in IT for the next 30 or 40 years until you retire then I would say get a Bachelor and consider a Masters. I find that increasingly having a degree is becoming the minimum standard for even getting your foot in the door and certainly for competing with others with similar skills. It will increase your long term earning potential and I'm betting make you more confident. Four to six years spent in investing in yourself is a relatively small investment for what it will provide you over the next 40 years.
I've been programming professionally for 10 years now, have finished 3 years of college, and am finding it difficult to get my butt back in school. I'm in my mid 40's and given that I'm not a genius or incredibly talented; my colleagues consider me smart and a very good programmer. I'm faced with either remaining in IT for the next 20 years or changing careers again. If I decide to stay in IT I have no doubt that I will need to finish my degree to remain competitive 10 or 15 years from now. It is also very discouraging to have less competent people hired above you primarily because of educational background.
So could I finish a career in IT without a degree, maybe if I wanted to sit in the same job until retirement. Would a degree give me more flexibility, earning potential, and allow me to be more competitive, definitely!
That being said, I would suggest you look at your long term plans, if you're young and plan on staying in IT for the next 30 or 40 years until you retire then I would say get a Bachelor and consider a Masters. I find that increasingly having a degree is becoming the minimum standard for even getting your foot in the door and certainly for competing with others with similar skills. It will increase your long term earning potential and I'm betting make you more confident. Four to six years spent in investing in yourself is a relatively small investment for what it will provide you over the next 40 years.
I've been programming professionally for 10 years now, have finished 3 years of college, and am finding it difficult to get my butt back in school. I'm in my mid 40's and given that I'm not a genius or incredibly talented; my colleagues consider me smart and a very good programmer. I'm faced with either remaining in IT for the next 20 years or changing careers again. If I decide to stay in IT I have no doubt that I will need to finish my degree to remain competitive 10 or 15 years from now. It is also very discouraging to have less competent people hired above you primarily because of educational background.
So could I finish a career in IT without a degree, maybe if I wanted to sit in the same job until retirement. Would a degree give me more flexibility, earning potential, and allow me to be more competitive, definitely!
It depends. I've been with employers that went both ways on this.
One wanted competency. They were looking for experience, the ability to learn new technologies, and good communication skills. They could honestly care less if I had a degree.
Another (teaching hospital) really stressed the degree. They promoted based on years of experience, degree, and competency. Missing any one of these would greatly limit your career, salary, etc.
You also need to understand that in this "new" age of technology, your resume may not be read by a human being. Many large companies have HR information systems that all resumes are submitted to. A HR representative for the company then searches the resumes based on key words. The ones that come up are then forwarded to the department heads. If a degree is a specific requirement, you may not have a chance. (In all fairness, there are ways around this, but it is difficult.)
Personally, I'd get the degree. It is something to fall back on and may provide you with more job security and potential for advancement. As I have already said though, it really depends on where you are working.
One wanted competency. They were looking for experience, the ability to learn new technologies, and good communication skills. They could honestly care less if I had a degree.
Another (teaching hospital) really stressed the degree. They promoted based on years of experience, degree, and competency. Missing any one of these would greatly limit your career, salary, etc.
You also need to understand that in this "new" age of technology, your resume may not be read by a human being. Many large companies have HR information systems that all resumes are submitted to. A HR representative for the company then searches the resumes based on key words. The ones that come up are then forwarded to the department heads. If a degree is a specific requirement, you may not have a chance. (In all fairness, there are ways around this, but it is difficult.)
Personally, I'd get the degree. It is something to fall back on and may provide you with more job security and potential for advancement. As I have already said though, it really depends on where you are working.
QuestingElf
IS-IT--Management
Usually when someone in IT insists you must have a degree, it's because:
1. They don't know how to determine true competence.
2. They have a degree are jealous of anybody who's accomplished much without one.
I knew a lady with 20+ years experience with no degree who used to get challenged on this a lot by bureaucractic rule-driven employers. After it bothered her for a while, she came up with this one liner:
Oh, I do have a degree, it's from UHK -- University of Hard Knocks.
She did fantastic work and she taught herself hands on in just about everything. It was especially impressive since at the time IT was even more male-dominated than today, so she felt she had to work double/triple to prove her know-how.
However, she really wanted to take charge of her career and be considered for more serious positions. She would apply for jobs, and not necessarily get called back. Given her aggressive personality, she'd call and find out who was in charge. Periodically, someone would say she looked good on paper, yet without a degree, they couldn't consider her. So she came up with that one-liner.
Eventually, though, she got tired of the whole back-and-forth persuasion game. So once she got to an employer who supplied tuition reimbursement. She got her degrees, a bachelors and a masters. She said she really didn't learn anything new at college, most of what she got there she could pick up on the Net or through trade journals. (And never mind that employers frequently complain that recent grads are so unprepared for the "real world.")
So in her mind, as in the mind of many, she simply went and got her degrees to comply with the brainlessness found in many corporations. Having the degree meant they couldn't use that against her any more as a knock-out factor.
1. They don't know how to determine true competence.
2. They have a degree are jealous of anybody who's accomplished much without one.
I knew a lady with 20+ years experience with no degree who used to get challenged on this a lot by bureaucractic rule-driven employers. After it bothered her for a while, she came up with this one liner:
Oh, I do have a degree, it's from UHK -- University of Hard Knocks.
She did fantastic work and she taught herself hands on in just about everything. It was especially impressive since at the time IT was even more male-dominated than today, so she felt she had to work double/triple to prove her know-how.
However, she really wanted to take charge of her career and be considered for more serious positions. She would apply for jobs, and not necessarily get called back. Given her aggressive personality, she'd call and find out who was in charge. Periodically, someone would say she looked good on paper, yet without a degree, they couldn't consider her. So she came up with that one-liner.
Eventually, though, she got tired of the whole back-and-forth persuasion game. So once she got to an employer who supplied tuition reimbursement. She got her degrees, a bachelors and a masters. She said she really didn't learn anything new at college, most of what she got there she could pick up on the Net or through trade journals. (And never mind that employers frequently complain that recent grads are so unprepared for the "real world.")
So in her mind, as in the mind of many, she simply went and got her degrees to comply with the brainlessness found in many corporations. Having the degree meant they couldn't use that against her any more as a knock-out factor.
acewarlock
Technical User
Thats what the mail order degrees are for, a BS degree for a BS requirement.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
Bandenjamin
Programmer
I'd agree, need one? No you can get by without, personally I have done pretty well over the last 10 years without one, however, I have also more difficulty in changing jobs than many people I know who have degrees.
Plus, I've seen plenty of job postings where a degree is required, but never one where it would bar you from potential employement.
I view it as proof to a prospective employer that I can complete a major long-term project on a deadline.
I made the decision when I was younger that I wouldn't need one. Now I am currently enrolled in a respected university to get one. Wish I would have done it when I was younger, would have been easier before the wife, car payments, mortgage, kids, etc. Plus if in your future you want to encourage your own children to get that degree, its far easier if you can say you did it.
Just my 2 cents
--Dan
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
No degree here, but I do have over 2 years of college (plus 18 months in a technical school to learn programming). My problem was that we made too much money to qualify for student loans or Pell grants (my wife is a teacher), so all we could afford was the two years of tuition. After that, I got free training in programming at the technical school, and I got a job and eventually established myself in the IT field.
Free Advice: Never put your tuition on a credit card. The interest alone will eat you alive. It took me three years to pay that off.
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo.
Free Advice: Never put your tuition on a credit card. The interest alone will eat you alive. It took me three years to pay that off.
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo.
Stella740pl
Programmer
flapeyre,
...we made too much money to qualify for student loans...
...Never put your tuition on a credit card.
As an aside note, if you don't qualify for those low-rate student loans, there is still a good chance you might qualify for higher rate private student loans. The interest on them is still much lower than on most credit cards. People who make an extensive research on the subject usually say they found one way or another, including sometimes some special private scholarships offered to some particular groups.
But many adult people I know just found employers who offer college tuition reimbursement as a benefit and finished their degrees.
Stella,
This was about 15 years ago, and at the time we were not aware of any private student loan companies. In any case, I'm generally conservative when it comes to money. I now pay everything off every month (I don't carry a credit card balance). My only long-term debts are the house mortgage (which was refinanced five years ago at 4.75% for 15 years), my car (my wife's is paid for), and a $10,000 SBA loan to help out with the hurricane damage. Since I got a job programming, I figured it was better deal for us to have me earn some money, rather than spend it.
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo.
This was about 15 years ago, and at the time we were not aware of any private student loan companies. In any case, I'm generally conservative when it comes to money. I now pay everything off every month (I don't carry a credit card balance). My only long-term debts are the house mortgage (which was refinanced five years ago at 4.75% for 15 years), my car (my wife's is paid for), and a $10,000 SBA loan to help out with the hurricane damage. Since I got a job programming, I figured it was better deal for us to have me earn some money, rather than spend it.
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo.
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1
- #18
I've been in IT for 10+ years and not all of my work experience is in IT. I'm self-taught (mostly trial by fire), and my lack of a college degree never affected my career goals....until I was put through the wringer during a trial that I was a witness in. "Yes, I did the forensic analysis. No, I only have a high school education. No, I do not have special training. No, I do not have any type of training or education beyond HS. No, I do not...." I was mortified to be in the position I was in. Here I was thinking that I had put the final nail in the coffin of the case, and in my eyes, I was the biggest idjit out there.
I went and registered at community college. I threw up on my first day of class, afraid I was going to be the oldest one. I'm 5 semesters into night school now. If I were younger, I'd be finishing up my freshman year. In addition to mandatory classes such as algebra, history, and literature, I've taken classes that have made me take a different look at my IT world around me. I've been able to make suggestions that is getting management to consider me in a different light.
I waited 20 years after high school to go to college. I'm now in the transfer program, and am looking at graduating with a full 4 year degree from a major university.
I can't say I regret my decision after HS, but I wonder where I'd be if I had gone to college. The biggest thing that I've learned so far is that 20 years ago, degrees didn't matter as much as they do now. Competition is fierce, and if you don't have multi-layered, multi-decade experience, you better have a degree in addition to knowing what you're doing. Some people that are at least as old as I am have gotten by without degrees. However, now that I've figured out what I want to be when I grow up, I know that my education is going to make me more valuable to my employer than I am now.
I've always lived by the rule of "never pass up an adventure." Well, I passed the best one up, and I passed it up when the parental units were offering to pay for it. Now, I'm the one forking it out and am limited to what I can afford per semester. If you have the opportunity to go to college, I encourage you to go go go! It's not a Bad Thing to do for yourself, and the only thing you may miss out on is years and years of working your way to the top instead of just taking the elevator.
Sorry if this is lengthy, but I'm seeing more and more degreed people in the now worldwide hunt for jobs. Sooner or later, I'll be one of them. That feeling is priceless.
I went and registered at community college. I threw up on my first day of class, afraid I was going to be the oldest one. I'm 5 semesters into night school now. If I were younger, I'd be finishing up my freshman year. In addition to mandatory classes such as algebra, history, and literature, I've taken classes that have made me take a different look at my IT world around me. I've been able to make suggestions that is getting management to consider me in a different light.
I waited 20 years after high school to go to college. I'm now in the transfer program, and am looking at graduating with a full 4 year degree from a major university.
I can't say I regret my decision after HS, but I wonder where I'd be if I had gone to college. The biggest thing that I've learned so far is that 20 years ago, degrees didn't matter as much as they do now. Competition is fierce, and if you don't have multi-layered, multi-decade experience, you better have a degree in addition to knowing what you're doing. Some people that are at least as old as I am have gotten by without degrees. However, now that I've figured out what I want to be when I grow up, I know that my education is going to make me more valuable to my employer than I am now.
I've always lived by the rule of "never pass up an adventure." Well, I passed the best one up, and I passed it up when the parental units were offering to pay for it. Now, I'm the one forking it out and am limited to what I can afford per semester. If you have the opportunity to go to college, I encourage you to go go go! It's not a Bad Thing to do for yourself, and the only thing you may miss out on is years and years of working your way to the top instead of just taking the elevator.
Sorry if this is lengthy, but I'm seeing more and more degreed people in the now worldwide hunt for jobs. Sooner or later, I'll be one of them. That feeling is priceless.
In the mid-nineties, I was enlisted in the military, and saw the handwriting on the wall. I took classes at night, online, etc, and by 95 obtained my BA in Economics. I have never actually worked in a field directly related to my degree, but it opened many doors that otherwise would have been closed to me. When the Army offered early retirement to my field in 98, I jumped on it and started my new career. The first thing I did was get certified. Between the two, my carrer has gone amazingly well despite a few missteps.
acewarlock
Technical User
It all depends on the company your looking to work for and what they really need. Do they want a degree or somebody that knows what there doing. It doesn't hurt to have the degree so if you can afford it, go fot it.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.
This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.
Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.
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