DirecTV Cabling 1

[sch3j]

I just had a dish installed today and can't get my signal to carry through my house. The satellite cables coming into the house from outside replaced the existing cable coax, but no signal is being transmitted through my house to the receivers. I have digital cable, so I don't think it is a matter of the coax within my walls not being able to carry the signal, although the house was built in 1977. Any ideas on what my problem might be?

If I plug the wires from outside directy into a receiver, I get signal, so the dish is installed correctly and passing a good signal. Thanks in advance.

 

[workjohnout]

I see a lot of misinformation here. "Wires" seems to have it right. I'll throw my 2 cents in and try to keep it as simple as possible. I have professionally installed cable tv and satellite for a number of years. I have attended training classes and I am certified. La-dee-da.

First of all, I'll bet anything that in a 4-story condo there are hidden splitters somewhere that are preventing the voltage from the receivers that is necessary to power the LNB from reaching the dish. As mentioned, try to find them, especially behind wall plates. Either replace them with "barrels" (male-to-male couplings) or use diplexors. Make sure that the satellite feed is connected to the correct side of the diplexor. Both sides should be labeled. If you cannot locate any splitters, you must run new cables, direct "home runs" as they are referred to, from the dish to the receivers.

Secondly, unless you need more than two receivers, you do NOT need a multiswitch.

Thirdly, you CAN easily and successfully diplex to a cable modem. I have done this many times, including in my own house. Although it is always preferable to run separate cables it may be prohibitive in a condo setting where the place is pre-wired and restrictions on new cabling may exist.

Fourthly, you need to get on the phone with Directv immediately and tell them what happened during your installation. Believe me, they WILL correct this situation, custom work notwithstanding. They are customer service FANATICS. In the end it might be worth the money to pay for the new lines to be run. Tell them that you DEMAND they send a lead tech on the next service call. When it comes to Directv, the squeaky wheel gets LOTS of grease.

One last item...make sure you use RG-6 when you run the new cables. I refuse to argue about whether RG-59 will work or not. RG-6 is better, costs the same and that's that.

 

[AvayaNovice]

Again, a diplexer will ONLY work when your return is at about 30-35. Anything higher than that will result in a return path that is above an acceptable level (roughly 60).

I have seen it work with a diplexer as well, but return level is the issue. A reverse path meter can tell you that, trilithic RSVP's are great meters for that purpose.

And I can tell you right now that RG-59 will work just fine, as long as your signal level is high enough in the first place. The dropoff rate of RG-59 is much higher with high band frequencies, but if it's what's prewired, and it's homeran -- then you can make do. So I don't refuse to argue about that

In our cable system, there are still RG-59 drops looming in some areas that managed to be overlooked during out drop changeout three years ago.

RG-7 is still out there too, haven't seen it in a while though.

I have an excel spreadsheet available to anyone that wants it that shows the drop off rate for EVERY single channel for each different type of coax. Very useful.

 

[daronwilson]

Sorry about the mislead on the multiswitch, as I said I'm not that familiar with the specifics of Directv, sounds like every dish they produced has two LNB's? There were a lot of single LNB products (still have one on the roof) for various services and that was the reason I suggested you might need a multiswitch. Thanks for clearing it up!

Yeah we use RG6 for everything, though I can almost always find RG59 cheaper, never seen them for 'the same cost'. I do keep some, and fittings, as we have found in many old installs that the old tap fittings will ONLY take a center conductor the size in the RG59, RG6 simply won't fit in there. There were several properties with hardline and vampire taps in the attic and we had to pigtail out with RG59 to add a drop.

Happy Holidays

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Hardline and vampire taps in the attic? Please elaborate on that. There are RG-6 to RG-59 step down fittings.

 

[daronwilson]

Yup, condos that were wired by the cable company years ago, .500 hardline trunked through the attics of the condos with vampire 6 port vampire taps in every attic to serve that 4plex of units. We had to add drops to the two upstairs bedrooms, wasn't until we were into it that I discovered what I had to hook it up to. Fortunately I had some 59 and fittings on the truck for strange deals like this.

I'd sure avoid the RG59, but this one was easily fixed on the spot with a short 59 jumper.



It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Sure thing, that's not too big of a deal. And considering the circumstances, that would have been illegal for you to changeout the faceplates on the taps, oh well.

Was someone saying earlier that they were modulating their security cameras onto their CATV inbound with a digital box? I'm curious if they used an existing channel and modulated over it, or if they picked an unused channel, because I don't see how they could have gotten the box to tune to a channel that's not in the channel plan of the headend...

 

[Servamatic]

Avaya, I am not sure I understood your last post, but....

You would modulate to the coax distribution system and from their directly to a TV input. Not through a cable box.

The channel you modulate to, should not be a used channel if you want to see the picture.
If you can't tune in a channel on your TV outside the broadcast channels on your system, you need a Low Pass Filter to wipe a few channels that you can then modulate to.
When modulating a channel you need a clear channel on both sides of the one you want the picture on. i.e. if you want to put the camera on 85, you must have 84-86 clear.


Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.smartbuilthomes.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Servamatic,

Looks like you didn't quite catch what I meant. Digital cable boxes will only tune to channels in their channel plan. That being said, if your local CATV company isn't using channel 96 let's say, and you wanted to put something on that channel, say a security camera feed, and you modulated it to channel 96, the box would still not allow you to tune to channel 96 because it's not in the channel plan that it downloads from the DMTS from the headend.

That being said.

When modulating, you need a clear channel on both sides, make sure to never modulate anything on channel 2 or 3 if you plan to use digital services, the reverse path is located between channel 2 and 3.

On top of that, you can modulate "over" a channel, I've never used a low pass filter because of the inherent return issues that they cause, I have on the other hand modulated over a channel not using any other equipment besides a modulater... and the device that I used modulated "over" the channel that I chose (Which was in the 90's I believe).

I don't work in the headend much, so I don't know more than I need to about modulation and what not, I handle more outside plant related activity, and channel balancing throughout the system.

 

[daronwilson]

We often set up a motel with a pay channel remodulated on a lower channel. Digital converter box tuned to 500 or whatever. We use a 3 cavity notch filter to notch out the existing channel 3 or 4, and then amplify the output of the cable box and send it down the line with a band pass filter on it. Seems to work fine.

At home I had a camera and modulated it, but then have to turn off the digital cable box (or switch to a second input on the TV that is bypassing the box) and tune it there. Not as elegant as we used to be able to do before the digital cable and locked down set top boxes.

Oh well, progress!


It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Right, your motel setup is what we typically do as well, although our modulators have the same notch filter built in, in fact, whatever channel you set the modulator to it automatically notches out.

Some systems call this an "HBO box". Although, we don't use a digital box to do it... as HBO is still broadcast as channel 24 (scrambled) and we use a basic converter by general insturments to descrable that. A digital box would be overkill, but then again... I work for the cable company -- and you don't have access to that, so your setup works fine too.

If you have a scientific atlanta box, which are the "explorer" series, or a motorola box, they both have bypass modes that require a bypass module. That module allows you to press the bypass button on the remote, thereby bypassing the box and turning the box into a passive unit, allow the normal CATV channel spectrum to hit your television. So... what you could do, is change your digital box output channel to channel 6 for instance, set your TV to be locked to channel 6, and modulate over channel six before the box. That way: when box is enabled, normal digital channels, as well as analog channels come in (minus whatever you have on channel six, that would be the camera input) and then you have one button access to your camera output, by hitting the bypass button. It's somewhat redudant, but does allow you to have one button access. Then again, hitting six and select isn't that difficult either.

I think the easiest solution would be to notch out channels in the 90 region which are commonly not used due to dropoff, and modulate over one of those. Your digital box should recognize whatever channels your CATV company does use, which for instance -- we have a diagnostic channel on 98, so if you modulate over that -- you can still tune to it with your digi box.

Many solutions.

Before I even get there, I need to finish rewiring my house... which is turning into flexbit nightmare with 2" PVC conduit in the walls for the inhouse vaccum cleaner.