Digital-Unistem to SIP

[GTexx]

We are in the process of converting most of our Nortel/Avaya digital ISM's to IP. Is there any benefits/pros for going to a SIP Phone rather than a Unistem IP Phone. We have about 800 1100's & I2004's in service currently and plan to add and additional 1000 but the question was asked why don't we just go to a SIP phone instead. We are still running on multiple CS 1000M's (4) and one CS 1000E out of region.

 

[gwebster]

You should look at the capabilities available with SIP on whatever CS 1000 rls you are using versus the capabilities available with UNIStim and match those with your needs.

 

[Tman45]

I dunno about the 2000 series but you can SIP flash MOST IP phones from what I understand. Then you just need SIP trunks and endpoints I thought I flashed an 1140 before but now I can't be sure I know I did a Cisco 7960 from their specific SCCP protocol to SIP - Avaya is the same (I believe you can flash those). No sense in being talked into specific SIP phones when you can just reload your current phones with SIP protocol.
SIP is more feature-rich - things like presence and other cool features can add value/ROI.

 

[DogBiscuits]

I don't think there is a SIP firmware for I200x sets. At least not yet.

 

[gwebster]

Tman45 - be careful with that statement. You can do things different in SIP. If however you look at traditional core telephony features, then you will always be able to do more with UNISTim/SCCP/.. The SIP standards are still evolving. As an example, there is no common way of implementing Shared Call Appearance in SIP. So that ability in your home of talking on one analog phone and being able to pick up another analog phone and bridge into the conversation does not automatically work with SIP endpoints.

 

[Tman45]

Yep I am not trying to be misleading at all. Just trying to let it be known that SIP is the future and I would much rather invest in that. The NEW feature sets (not standard/core telephony) can offer more ROI as the evolution proceeds - TDM hasn't been evolving for years Just the features and apps that can be tied into it.

Plus I am a data guy that took a Telecom position out of school so all this TDM stuff doesn't make the best sense to me Even though I have been doing it for 6+ years now.
I do MUCH better with VoIP, SIP, SCCP etc

 

[gwebster]

The Unistem (actually UNIStim) mentioned above is an IP-based protocol.

 

[GTexx]

Thanks for response guys, gwebster I know UNIStim is an IP protocol, my initial inquiry was to see if it was beneficial migrating the remaining digital and existing UNIStim IP phones to SIP based (SIP ISMs) rather than just migrating everything to UNIStim based IP sets. The long term goal is to eventually have all IP desktop sets (SIP/UNIStim) and integrate the PBX (CS 1000) to future applications such as Exchange UM, Microsoft OCS and SIP to the Carrier. We are also currently recording UNIStim IP phones (Nortel DMSip) with NICE I don't think it matters what protocol the phone is running because NICE is only capturing the RTP media. So basically I just wanted to see if there is a technological advantage for using either of the two protocol.

 

[allenmac]

As far as I know, the 1140e is the only current Nortel IP phone that can run the SIP firmware. It also looks like it will be supported for quite a while according the the Avaya/Nortel integration roadmap.

 

[Tman45]

Right Gtexx which was my point - you can go with upgrading your 1100s to SIP (but unfortunately not your i2004s - which are EoM anyway) and then Avaya's roadmap takes over (and if you buy Avaya SIP phones down the road). SIP will have/does have more features and will continue to evolve even further than UNIStim - yeah I think gweb was directing the Unistim thing at me since I brought TDM into this discussion (which I mainly think of TDM when core telephony features are discussed) Suppose I was mainly trying to contrasting TDM technology to current IP technology as I look at IP versus SIP technology in the same light (that IP will eventually be phased out and SIP will be the leader).
Course that is also years and years (10+) down the road - sorry for my futuristic vision - you would be likely to have a new PBX by then anyway!

 

[GTexx]

Thanks for the info Tman45. I guess SIP seems the way to go because it will yield greater value in the long run. I've realized there are different flavors of SIP, So I assume I can't just get any SIP phone and expect to use it on the CS 1000 just because I have SIP ISM's?

 

[Tman45]

What I was saying is that you CAN use Nortel, Cisco, Avaya, etc. phones with your SIP That is the GREAT part about SIP is that you don't have these proprietary protocols like UNIstim and SCCP ... for the life of me I can't recall what Avaya 4620 phones use

 

[GTexx]

Well we have all Nortel PBX's (CS 1000's). All our IP phones are the Nortel's 1100 series and the older i2004's P1/P2. The question that was put to me is why don't we make the phones run the SIP Firmware and convert all the existing ISM's to SIP ISM's. I believe the Idea is that when OCS is in place and is up to the level of having a SIP phone(non-vendor specific) register to it, then we would just use the existing 1100's to register to OCS, I know that's a few releases down the road for Microsoft, but you I just had to respond with a reason why/why not to make the phones SIP from now. So basically they don't want to loose the investment on the Desktop IP phones, especially since we are in the process of buying more Nortel 1100's and toying with the idea of buy lower cost SIP phones to register to the CS 1000's.

 

[Tman45]

Right - so do exactly that Change all your existing 1100's to SIP (via SIP flash) and go buy the cheaper SIP (non-vendor specific) ... dunno how cheap you are talking, but I prefer the Cisco 7940s/7960s for staff and I can get them for less than $100 each (lightly used). Best of luck on your venture - too bad you can't SIP flash your i2004s - or you can ask Nortel - maybe they have something to do that?

 

[GTexx]

So basically I can tell managment that we can convert our existing Unistem IP Licenses to SIP Line Licenses, Flash the 1100 series phones with SIP firmware and then we can continue using the 1100 series and buy SIP phones like the Cisco 7940's/7960's? Now would that be all that's involved to have those type of phones register to the CS 1000M. No additional hardware/software would be required? We are thinking more of just giving those type of phones to user's who only have a PDN,Roll-over and uses basic features such as conference, transfer, Call Forward etc. The other outstanding issue would be IP recording, we currently use Nortel DMSIP with the UniStim phones, does that change in a SIP environment it's just RTP Media that is collected by the voice recorders.

 

[Tman45]

Unfortunately, I am unsure on the licensing portion. Anyone else know that for sure? When I flashed the Cisco 7960 it just used the IP license from what I recall

You need to setup SIP endpoints and register them to the CS1000E NRS I believe (to have no cost) or I think you need to upgrade your CS1000Ms ... I don't recall if those can do SIP - sorry I don't have all the answers for ya.

Again, too bad you can't use your i2004s.
If you don't know how to SIP flash the 1100 series you may need some vendor help Its not completely hard such as you edit an XML file by changing the MAC address to the MAC address of each phone you are 'flashing'.

And yes all the basic features should be fine and yes I believe the IP recording (RTP stream) should be sufficient - if not I think you can move it to the trunk(s) if it isn't already tapped at that point. We use TAPIT so I am not familiar with Nortel DMSIP.

 

[allenmac]

If you update your PBX to release 6, then you can run SIP Line Gateway, and register your SIP phones to the gateway.

This would give you full support for your SIP phones today. I'm not sure what the licensing model is for the SIP Line Gateway, so that would need to be answered. It is possible that you would only need a SIP trunk license for each call between the PBX and SIP phone - but again, I don't know that for sure.