digital phone clarification (cordless or analog installed on a digital line)

[blantonwh]

I am a novice pbx administrator that is looking for a solution to a user problem. The user is situated in a bldg that has no other cables left to use and running new cables would take some time. I just upgraded the line to a digital 2616 from the analog 8314. Without my knowledge, the user has a cordless analog that was split on the same line. The user has a specific requirement for the capabilities of both: digital conference, show incoming calls, etc and the analog cordless to roam the entire second floor of the bldg. Also, the user must maintain the same DN.

What are my options for rectifying the problem? Is there a way to get the analog cordless to work over the digital line? Is there a such thing as a digital cordless that could share the same line? Can I phantom the DN to an analog line that runs over the digital too?

I am sure I have used the wrong terminology for my scenario but I am learning each time I present my questions or problems. Thanks for all your help and advice.

Blanton

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[trvlr1]

Split the pairs so (for instance) the digital uses the blue pair and the analog uses the green pair. You cannot mix the two on the same pair. The difference is in the PBX, digital and analog cards are different animals. The configured TN for digital and TN for analog phone will have to be separately cross connected at the main frame where PBX cross connects to house wiring. If you do choose the split pair system, the jack at the phone end will have to be changed to match colors.

 

[blantonwh]

Okay, I follow your logic and it's rather simple in my mind. Also, I understand the TN's and differences in analog and digital ones but I know the experts out here in this forum know all kinds of tricks and techniques to accomplish something.

However I don't believe we have a full solution because the user must have the same DN on both phones. How can I use the same DN once it is set on the 2616 TN? With my knowledge, once the DN is used it can't be applied to another TN except like a phantom or similar situation.

Thanks

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

You are incorrect Blanton, you can have the same DN on multiple phones, even across different types, 500, 2260, 3000 etc. You will already have the analog TN programmed, just simply connect it to the green pair as Trvlr1 suggested at your MDF, then go to the other end and break the pair out with another Rj11 box and you will be able to connect the analog device to that with no problems.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[GHTROUT]

Its possible there are no other cables from the main building to the other building. In this case, with zero other wire pairs available, you can use one of these to create an analog line from the existing M2616

https://www.google.com/search?q=NT2K68AA

~~
Gene at GHTROUT.com

 

[blantonwh]

I am still unable to complete my task. Johnthephoneguy, I must not be understanding how to complete your suggestions. I am working on a 51C version 1711. I set the user up with a 2616 and his current DN4502 and everything works properly on that particular cable. I now attempt to configure an analog TN with the same DN4502 and my pbx returns the error SCH0600 "illegal input". How do I make this work with 1 DN on an analog and digital phone on two separate lines. I always had extra pairs in the line but have not been able to figure out how to get the analog to work.

The solution I have to try is to continue with the digital 2616 set and at the user location take the pair and connect a keystone to the pair and plug the analog phone into it and then the digital pair would continue on to it's normal termination. Please look at my picture attachment so you can see what I am attempting. Yes, it is a crude drawing but forgive me.

I am open to all suggestions to help me out. Thanks

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[blantonwh]

Would this be a solution? I create the TN 4 1 1 1 for the analog 500 phone DN 4502. I then create TN 4 1 1 2 for the digital 2616 phone DN 4503. I then apply key 01 scr 4502 on the 2616. I will have 2 pair on the same cable that I can utilize at the pbx to the bldg then break out the cable at the user and terminate with keystones for each pair and then on to the respective phones.

I am going to test it and see but not very hopeful in it working but it's a learning process for me.

GHTROUT and other please write PBX for Dummies and send to me!

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[trvlr1]

In LD 11 enter:
luvu
500
then enter through the other prompts. This will list out all available analog TN's. You need to use one of these when programming a 500 set, you cannot program a 500 set on a digital TN.
You then need to cross connect from that TN on the wiring frame, to the appropriate wire going to the user location, but on a separate pair from the Digital phone (we used the green pair as an example.
At the user end, you need to take the green pair to a new jack and punch it down on where the blue pair would normally go This gives you two separate phone lines on one cable. You can put up to 4 phones on a standard CAT 3 /5 or CAT 6 cable, just by splitting out the pairs at the user end and punching each one down on a separate jack on the blue pair. (the phone needs to see the signal on the center pair which is where you would normally punch down the blue pair.)

Hope this helps.

 

[gwebster]

Since you are using an analog and digital phone with the same number, by default this would result in a "Single Call Ringing" configuration - i.e. only one call at a time can be made with that number. If there is a call active on either the analog or digital phone, then going offhook on the other will bridge them into the call.

If you want a "Multiple Call Ringing" configuration - i.e. have separate calls active on the analog and digital phone,then you need to program as follows. First remove any appearance of the DN from the digital set. Then program the analog (500) set with the DN as well as CLS MCRA. Then go back and add the DN to the digital set as an MCR key.

 

[blantonwh]

I am a network administrator and understand cabling, pairs and what you are telling me to do. I have configured the analog on the analog TN's on a analog card. However, I am trying to do this with the same DN on both the analog and digital set. Your solution gives me two lines and two DN's. I can do multiple TNs/DNs on the same cable no problem. My user has to have the same DN on both phones as one of them has to be a cordless phone. Is it possible to do the same DN on an analog and digital set? Or is there a such thing as a digital cordless set that can be configured on the PBX?

Thanks for any and all help

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[blantonwh]

GWEBSTER, The user would be fine with only one call at a time being he is the only user of that phone. I do realize it ties up two DN's for 1 phone user but that is fine as I have many leftover at this point. But I also like your solution with the CLS MCRA. I am going to configure that and test it out. I feel a reasonable, valid, and easy solution emerging. I guess the hard part is getting the details and requirements out of me, the beginner pbx admin.

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[trvlr1]

If you are copying another TN you have to enter a new unused DN. You can then go back in and change it to the number you want it to be. The number can be put on multiple phones and multiple types of phones without issue as log as you are not trying to copy from one to another TN. One of the nuances of Nortel systems.

 

[blantonwh]

Okay, I was able to create the TN's with the same DN. I got it working at my pbx so now I am patching the pair from TN to 110 block over to the bldg and will be testing the setup soon. This is the solution I have been looking for but I didn't have the knowledge yet to complete it.

Thanks

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[blantonwh]

Okay, That solution worked and I learned something new in the process. Also, Can anyone clarify if there is a such thing as a digital cordless set for Meridian 51C version 1711 rel 21?

Thanks again for all the help

Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

There is a Digital Cordless set but it is junk. M2616CT is the model. It will work for a while but every one I have ever run across stopped working after a while.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[nessman]

A.) What you're looking to do is straightforward, but it sounds like you're in over your head with this task. Get a vendor in to show you how to do this correctly.
B.) A Nortel Meridian Option 51c running 1711 software is an old old obsolete unsupported end-of-life dinosaur on borrowed time. Think about replacing it more sooner than later.
C.) Never mix analog and digital phones on the same cable pair, never bridge the two together, never bridge TN's together. Bad things will happen.
D.) Program your 2616 first - put DN 4502 in key 0 (i.e., KEY 0 SCR 4502), then program your 500 set - at the DN field just type 4502.
E.) If you're running CAT3/5/6 cable, cross-connect the digital TN to the white/blue pair - punch down on the white/blue terminals on the RJ-11 (polarity matters on digital sets!). Cross connect the analog TN on the orange/white pair, punch down on the white/blue terminals on the RJ-11 - while polarity doesn't really matter on analog circuits - for standards and consistency sake, assume it does. Always use the white/blue terminals on your RJ-11's (or green/red if using older style RJ-11's - white/blue to green, blue/white to red).
F.) Analog TN's are never on the same card as the digital TN's. Look at the card faceplates... NT8D02xx is digital - NT8D90xx is analog.
G.) Get a vendor in to help you with this.

 

[blantonwh]

Nessman:

A. I'm not in over my head as it was fixed a week ago but the suggestions being made weren't exactly clear due to my questions asked. Too many questions in original thread and not detailed enough to elaborate what I was looking to accomplish.
B. I work for a company that will not upgrade the PBX, they do not care if it bites the dust anytime soon, so I just do the best I can with what I have: replace cards often, change TN's often as they flake out, etc...
C. I understand not to mix analog and digital but the experts on here know tricks in these systems and provide them often. Was hoping for something quick, easy just to set at my PBX!
D. Completed
E. know the cabling already........been doing it for years just not on this dinosaur.
F. Know the differences...........was looking to see if there might be a trick
G. They will not pay for a vendor unless the PBX will not power on.

So you might can feel my pain............Network Administrator/Voip Administrator to a PBX admin..............so a learning curve is expected. Cisco Call Manager is much different than the Meridian from a configuration point of view. Thank goodness for forums and GHTROUT. The manuals are good but too many of them and too many options. It's going to take a lifetime to learn this system.




Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group

 

[gwebster]

D. Do it that way if you want a SCR arrangement. If you want MCR, then you need to program the analog first (with CLS = MCRA) then program the digital.

 

[nessman]

A.) The learning curve with Nortel Meridian / CS1000 systems is a bit steep. You came to the right place get your answers questioned. Just keep in mind that this place isn't a substitute for learning.
B.) Ask your management team how log can they run their business without a working phone system. While parts like line cards and power supplies are still current - everything else is long end of life and getting parts may be problematic in the upcoming years. Unless your system is covered under maintenance by a Nortel/Avaya vendor - don't expect same-day service.
C & F.) There's no trick to mixing analog and digital ports. It doesn't work, never has, never will. It's a 1:1 relationship - ports to phones - the only exception is an ATA adapter - but I've yet to come across one in the field.
G.) See "B" above. Can't say I envy you at this point.

Personally, if I were you - I'd leverage your Cisco VoIP background. More opportunities and future growth there than keeping these old dinosaurs going (and don't get me wrong - they're loveable old dinosaurs... just need to speak their language).

Good luck!

 

[blantonwh]

Thanks for the information Nessman.
A: I agree this forum isn't a substitute but I can get the information in layman's terms and understand it better.
B: I have pleaded, prodded, yelled and written analysis on loss of the phone system; however, the management will not incorporate VOIP in the budget for some reason. I guess to save money. We did have one meeting this past spring about upgrading 25-50 phones out of 500 to VOIP but that was just a meeting. Not a word has been mentioned since. Once they saw the cost and maintenance contracts compared to the PBX cost they shunned the VOIP upgrade even though the current PBX is over 20 years old and dying slowly. They discussed just replacing the PBX with a more recent model. We are stuck in the old era with the current management team being staffed by an older generation before the internet/IP blossom.
C: I understand. I am going to read up some more on the similarities and differences of analog vs digital within the PBX.

G: ENVY..............LOL, no IT administrator no matter the domain would envy my position nor understand the never ending shenanigans that occur daily at this place.

I need all the luck I can get.........

Thanks for the help and information


Network Administrator and PBX Administrator (Newbie)

Blanton
Triumph Group