I had a situation where I was trying to explaine to the President of my company why Network servers are a much better place to store data then floppy disks. My Boss (Plant manager who thinks he knows everything about computers) told the president in that meeting that he put a floppy disk on a magnitiser and nothing happened to it. The president believed him over me because ... well you know. <br><br>How do I deal with such a problem? Is it best to write down the date when I gave the explination and what it was? Go behind their back and store the data properly which could get me fired? I myself would rather see the data backed up properly then have it go away, so what do I do?<br><br>-cm<br>
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Dealing with Bosses who lie. 5
- Thread starter Albion
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MasterRacker
New member
This one is tough. You've categorized yourself as IT Mgmt which means you're a professional in the field. This means you were (supposedly) hired because you know your stuff and are competent in technical matters. This of course creates the question "If they don't trust my opinion, why was I hired and why am I here? ) How to tactfully bring any of these issues up with your boss will depend on your specific situation.<br><br>I guess at a minimum I would get a written document acknowledging you concerns about the safety of data not stored on a server. Point out that a floppy can be lost, stolen, damaged, fail, overwritten and then the (typically only copy of the) data will be lost while a server offers redundancy since you will have backups and the disk copy which also allows for recovery if a file is overwritten. Get your boss to sign that he's read it and have your HR person put it in your file. <br><br>I personally would try to get written and signed acceptance that you are not responsible for the loss of data not properly stored. If your boss doesn't seem to think it's a big deal, ask him to have yoyr insurance company do a risk analysis on the company and detail the possible costs to the firm of lost data. <p> Jeff<br><a href=mailto: masterracker@hotmail.com> masterracker@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> Of all the things I've lost in life, I miss my mind the most ...
MasterRacker
New member
My first response was probably too much CYA although you <i>should</i> have official poolicies on this kind of stuff.<br><br>To add to Cal's response - to get your point across put it in terms a business person understands: money. Point out the risks and put actual numbers to what loss could cost. Get 'em scared then show how to avoid the problems and come out looking good. <p> Jeff<br><a href=mailto: masterracker@hotmail.com> masterracker@hotmail.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> Of all the things I've lost in life, I miss my mind the most ...
To add to MasterRacker's suggestion, you may have "arm" yourself with third-party data as well as demostrations if need be. This can be very touchy, you don't want to upset or embarrass your boss but at the same time it is your job to point out potential problems and solutions.<br> <p>James P. Cottingham<br><a href=mailto: > </a><br><a href= Veneer Co., Inc.</a><br>All opinions are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
It is very apparent that your boss is not looking out for the business. Just himself. Absolutely get it in writing, and push the issue of "money well spent".<br><br>A good friend of mine, who was working for a Township in my state, was originally hired for her MIS work--she consulted with them for about 2 years and they offered her a position they created just to get her in. Her job discription was never actually written down and she stayed for approximatly 2 years.<br><br>Within those two years, somehow--don't know how, she ended up as a financial assistant primarily for payroll and that's when she had enough and left.<br><br>When I asked why she left she confided in me that the town never consulted with nor included her in any of the discussions regarding the computer upgrades nor software purchases they were making. They had 6 systems that crashed and hired outside help without seeing if she could help, they wanted to network 3 buildings and she recommended a WAN setup to secure Town data instead they gave her some software and told her they wanted it to work THROUGH THE INTERNET (isn't it a hoot?)--but of course she had problems the driver had a bug in the firewall for which she found updates to fix it and no sooner was she about to implenent the software that the Town decided to switch the analog phones to a PBX system creating more of a headache because the particular software they had given her was unstable in this pbx.<br><br>There were other things but enough of that. I say <b>"get it in writing, absolutely!!"</b> And if your boss won't sign the letter then send out a MEMO to the President and your boss.<br><br>Something like:<br><br>RE: Meeting held on xx-xx-xxxx<br><br>This is to recap the meeting that was held at the above date with regards to securing the information (data) stored on the computers.<br><br>Mr. President saw Mr. (boss) and myself regarding the reliability of floppies in conparison to servers. It was my recommendation that servers be used as they provide a centerlized area of maintaining all data required. It was Mr. (boss) suggestion that currently floppies still provide a reasonable way of storing information.<br><br>It was decided by (whomever) that floppies will be used.<br><br>(your initials)<br><br>something like that but of course in more detail...so you won't necessarily show your boss is incompentent (else you'll be on his bad side) but that the business would have benefited from your suggestion. (In layman's terms...you covered your a$$).<br><br><b>Oh ya,</b> make sure you somehow get their initials on the copy you keep. Cause there's a magic fairy that flies around from office to office and makes certain papers disappear without rhyme or reason.<br><br>That's my two cents.<br>MiggyD <p> <br><a href=mailto: > </a><br><a href= > </a><br>By the twitching of my thumb, something wicked this way comes........oh, it's only a boogy.
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Successful people all have the same three basic traits. Fortitude, benevolence and wisdom. Fortitude is the most important. Without it you cannot be kind when the need arises nor can you experiment and learn new things. Without fortitude it is very difficult to be truthful. You do not have to defend yourself. Likewise in some case there need not be a right or wrong answer. Why not suggest backing up on two different media for safety. I would venture a guess that about 1 in 100,000 people backup on floppies and while we know this fellow is out of touch with reality you have to be kind to him and let him think he is not wrong. Tell him you agree floppies are one type of backup device but, if he had to recommend a second choice, what would he recommend. Let him think it is his idea. A fourth trait of successful people is: make your enemies your friends.
Keep in mind: a good percentage of IT people think they are gods. They think they have something special and they tend to baffle people with nomenclature. They have standard excuses the most often heard excuse being: you need new equipment. They often spend 45 minutes explaining why they cannot do a 15 minute job. If one solves a problem on his own they will attack the solution coming up with many reasons why it cannot be used even though it works. (Nick Burns Your Company Computer Guy)
Be brave, stand up for yourself but do it with kindness. Think of co-workers as your equal. Believe they have something to offer. Losen up. Don't let someone else spoil your day. You can do that quite well on your own. We all can.
Now if I could only do as I say. I might be successful.
Keep in mind: a good percentage of IT people think they are gods. They think they have something special and they tend to baffle people with nomenclature. They have standard excuses the most often heard excuse being: you need new equipment. They often spend 45 minutes explaining why they cannot do a 15 minute job. If one solves a problem on his own they will attack the solution coming up with many reasons why it cannot be used even though it works. (Nick Burns Your Company Computer Guy)
Be brave, stand up for yourself but do it with kindness. Think of co-workers as your equal. Believe they have something to offer. Losen up. Don't let someone else spoil your day. You can do that quite well on your own. We all can.
Now if I could only do as I say. I might be successful.
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- #10
Fidleid has some good points.
While I would be equally agahst at backing up data on floppies, I can't lay my hands on a "authoritative" source which backs up my own person experience that floppies is bad. So my first thought would be to dig one up. But barring that, I'd suggest a demonstration.
Put some data on a floppy, de-magnitize it (with a permanent magnet, or a big electromagic), and then let the plant manager try to get the data back.
Maybe also point out how the hard disk in the server is a lot like a floppy (smirk). Its round, stores data with magnetic bits, and is also contained in a shell. (Though the server disk is in a metal shell--which is stronger.)
De-educating someone who already "knows" something, but has to be corrected is harder that teaching someone who doesn't know the answer; but heck, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
While I would be equally agahst at backing up data on floppies, I can't lay my hands on a "authoritative" source which backs up my own person experience that floppies is bad. So my first thought would be to dig one up. But barring that, I'd suggest a demonstration.
Put some data on a floppy, de-magnitize it (with a permanent magnet, or a big electromagic), and then let the plant manager try to get the data back.
Maybe also point out how the hard disk in the server is a lot like a floppy (smirk). Its round, stores data with magnetic bits, and is also contained in a shell. (Though the server disk is in a metal shell--which is stronger.)
De-educating someone who already "knows" something, but has to be corrected is harder that teaching someone who doesn't know the answer; but heck, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
dwmatteson
MIS
Re: Reliability of Floppy Diskettes
While not as authoritative as a thoroughly researched and meticulously documented report, you might find this to be of some interest:
One very good point that the page makes about the reliability of the media is that hard drives are working with a well regulated environment -- airtight with no debris at all. Try making that claim for a floppy disk that finds itself stuck in shirt pockets, floating loose in briefcases and occassionally stuck to a file cabinet with a kitchen magnet :-0.
To quote from the page itself:
While hard disks have the complex task of dealing with a very fast spinning disk and read/write heads floating very near to them on a cushion of air, they do this in a tightly controlled environment. The head assembly is sealed, and the platters are fixed and rigid. Floppy disks use removable media that is not rigid, and both the heads and media are exposed to external contaminants that can damage the media and lead to data loss. Data stored on floppy disks is also subject to loss as a result of stray magnetic fields.
Put another way, when's the last time you lost data on a hard drive because you spilled a cola beverage on it?
Re: Bosses who lie/aren't looking at the big picture
It's a real shame you've been put in this situation. I think the responses above are outstanding. Sure, a lot of it is CYA, but if your boss is unscrupulous enough to make a recommendation that could clearly hurt the business, I suspect that he's more than happy to engage in some revisionist history: "I tried to tell the president that this stuff should be stored on the network servers, but cm convinced him that we should store the stuff on floppies." Nasty.
Don
While not as authoritative as a thoroughly researched and meticulously documented report, you might find this to be of some interest:
One very good point that the page makes about the reliability of the media is that hard drives are working with a well regulated environment -- airtight with no debris at all. Try making that claim for a floppy disk that finds itself stuck in shirt pockets, floating loose in briefcases and occassionally stuck to a file cabinet with a kitchen magnet :-0.
To quote from the page itself:
While hard disks have the complex task of dealing with a very fast spinning disk and read/write heads floating very near to them on a cushion of air, they do this in a tightly controlled environment. The head assembly is sealed, and the platters are fixed and rigid. Floppy disks use removable media that is not rigid, and both the heads and media are exposed to external contaminants that can damage the media and lead to data loss. Data stored on floppy disks is also subject to loss as a result of stray magnetic fields.
Put another way, when's the last time you lost data on a hard drive because you spilled a cola beverage on it?
Re: Bosses who lie/aren't looking at the big picture
It's a real shame you've been put in this situation. I think the responses above are outstanding. Sure, a lot of it is CYA, but if your boss is unscrupulous enough to make a recommendation that could clearly hurt the business, I suspect that he's more than happy to engage in some revisionist history: "I tried to tell the president that this stuff should be stored on the network servers, but cm convinced him that we should store the stuff on floppies." Nasty.
Don
I had that problem, not with a boss, but with department heads who stored stuff on floppies and thought because they were stored in a nice plastic protection case they were safe. Im my case, nothing was wasted on the disks, nothing was lost or damaged. Sometimes those little floppies just get corrupted. And the individuals here lost data. They werent even using the floppies for backup, they were working FROM the floppies so when the floppies got corrupted, the files werent on a hard drive any where.
I had to pull out emails where I had urged them to not use the floppies as there ONLY source of data and/or backup. We dont have a big file server, but I even offered to set it up so that we could burn a CD back up regularly. They chose to trust the floppies. The emais saved my behind. I backup of the servers on a daily basis. Users are responsible for data on their computers.
I had to pull out emails where I had urged them to not use the floppies as there ONLY source of data and/or backup. We dont have a big file server, but I even offered to set it up so that we could burn a CD back up regularly. They chose to trust the floppies. The emais saved my behind. I backup of the servers on a daily basis. Users are responsible for data on their computers.
MasterRacker
New member
Our policy states that ALL data is on a server. Anything that's not on a server doesn't exist. IT takes no responsibility for any lost files that were'nt on a server. Even traveling types are required to sync their files to a server FIRST before anything else at all when they return to the office.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
I realize that I have come to this rather late in the discussion...but I think the issue is far beyond Floppies and their usefulness.
I would want to know why my Boss made me look bad in front of the President...The fact that I could make him really look bad is not going to make my life easier IF I plan to stay with that job.
It could be that he was totally ignorant about the dangers of magnets and floppies. It could be that he/she is under a lot of pressure and may view your expertise as a threat. Who knows...maybe at one time HE/SHE had recommended the use of floppies before your time and now doesn't want to look bad in front of the boss.
But I would want to know the reason...in private. I would do the demonstration...for his/her sake...not in front of the president though since that would be asking for trouble...Then find out why they said what they said...
if it was ignorance...then many more reasons for data storage on a server can be made and the policy can be readdressed without loss of face on your boss's side.
If it is because your boss dislikes you for some reason ....jealousy or other...well it is your time to make a decision about just how important this job really is to you.
Personally I would leave (and have done so on more than one occassion)...those kind of situations rarely get better with time....but that is me
Jim
I would want to know why my Boss made me look bad in front of the President...The fact that I could make him really look bad is not going to make my life easier IF I plan to stay with that job.
It could be that he was totally ignorant about the dangers of magnets and floppies. It could be that he/she is under a lot of pressure and may view your expertise as a threat. Who knows...maybe at one time HE/SHE had recommended the use of floppies before your time and now doesn't want to look bad in front of the boss.
But I would want to know the reason...in private. I would do the demonstration...for his/her sake...not in front of the president though since that would be asking for trouble...Then find out why they said what they said...
if it was ignorance...then many more reasons for data storage on a server can be made and the policy can be readdressed without loss of face on your boss's side.
If it is because your boss dislikes you for some reason ....jealousy or other...well it is your time to make a decision about just how important this job really is to you.
Personally I would leave (and have done so on more than one occassion)...those kind of situations rarely get better with time....but that is me
Jim
I learned the hard way and trusted my boss. Now I am losing my job so that he can cover his tracks and if I had kept records and demanded some things in writing I would be able to survive..
If I can make one recommendation: if matters involve you and your job get things in writing and keep good records to support your claims. I have been at meeting where this fellow lied in front of others most of whom are futher up the ladder than he and they denied things that were said at a later dates. Now none of them respond to my emails etc. while for the past 24 years they always did. They know they are in trouble and have offered me a new plush job to keep me happy. Since I have not records I must take this job and give in to them.
so KEEP GOOD RECORDS AND REQUIRE THINGS TO BE "IN WRITING". If they are not willing to put things in writing be prepared to suffer the most when times get tough.
If I can make one recommendation: if matters involve you and your job get things in writing and keep good records to support your claims. I have been at meeting where this fellow lied in front of others most of whom are futher up the ladder than he and they denied things that were said at a later dates. Now none of them respond to my emails etc. while for the past 24 years they always did. They know they are in trouble and have offered me a new plush job to keep me happy. Since I have not records I must take this job and give in to them.
so KEEP GOOD RECORDS AND REQUIRE THINGS TO BE "IN WRITING". If they are not willing to put things in writing be prepared to suffer the most when times get tough.
I empathize with you all.
Dumb is me! You are told something and work to get it completed and are told that they never said anything. Or you plan and oh your are just stressed out.
My issue...I went to a meeting that was being transcribed for budget purposes. The meeting was not recorded and I know that the transciption is very limited.
At the meeting, I brought up a line item that I had not put money for -- GIS. Stating that it was in a capital line item. (Please note that depending on the weather the response to this item changes who she is talking with).
At the meeting, no money will be funded next year for GIS, I have removed all budgetary amounts. I want IT to handle it and until the planner and highway are out of it, nothing will be budgeted.
Prior to that she had okayed our going out not for a needs assessment but a implementation study rfq. A grant was gotten to get additional funds and then the planner who was pushng this (I was told he would) was told no IT would handle it and bounce it over. He got the RFQ from other areas and changed it and we collaborated. It went out to bid.
So after last night's meeting, instead of wasting additonal funds, I pulled the bid. This is my time. I support 80 users and there is just me and a brand new assistant. Until such time as I have it in writing what she wants.
Late this afternoon, oh know, I just have to request the money put in. I have implemented GIS before but I need to talk to the GIS user's group president and see how they do things..........
Per her, You are just stressed out. Every six months you (me) blow and then nothing is wrong. Don't worry we'll talk Monday.
In addition, we support many software packages. We have a support contract but if I know the information or how to fix the problem, why call, faster fix. Last night I was dumb and did I work for these companies.
This afternoon, oh no, we never said that. That was in reference to another department not kicking in to fund my salary per her.
Lying....
There were others there through this, but will they back you up?? NO!!!! You have backed them up but don't expect that as backup.
Like was said, is the job worth it??
I was warned a while ago by a union person, if we want to get rid of somebody, we keep after them until we break them, they break enough times they are out. Harassment more like it!
So be fore armed!
I know!!!
Right now, I do not know where to go. I like much of the job and am good at it, but like you say, your days are numbered!
jockbir
Dumb is me! You are told something and work to get it completed and are told that they never said anything. Or you plan and oh your are just stressed out.
My issue...I went to a meeting that was being transcribed for budget purposes. The meeting was not recorded and I know that the transciption is very limited.
At the meeting, I brought up a line item that I had not put money for -- GIS. Stating that it was in a capital line item. (Please note that depending on the weather the response to this item changes who she is talking with).
At the meeting, no money will be funded next year for GIS, I have removed all budgetary amounts. I want IT to handle it and until the planner and highway are out of it, nothing will be budgeted.
Prior to that she had okayed our going out not for a needs assessment but a implementation study rfq. A grant was gotten to get additional funds and then the planner who was pushng this (I was told he would) was told no IT would handle it and bounce it over. He got the RFQ from other areas and changed it and we collaborated. It went out to bid.
So after last night's meeting, instead of wasting additonal funds, I pulled the bid. This is my time. I support 80 users and there is just me and a brand new assistant. Until such time as I have it in writing what she wants.
Late this afternoon, oh know, I just have to request the money put in. I have implemented GIS before but I need to talk to the GIS user's group president and see how they do things..........
Per her, You are just stressed out. Every six months you (me) blow and then nothing is wrong. Don't worry we'll talk Monday.
In addition, we support many software packages. We have a support contract but if I know the information or how to fix the problem, why call, faster fix. Last night I was dumb and did I work for these companies.
This afternoon, oh no, we never said that. That was in reference to another department not kicking in to fund my salary per her.
Lying....
There were others there through this, but will they back you up?? NO!!!! You have backed them up but don't expect that as backup.
Like was said, is the job worth it??
I was warned a while ago by a union person, if we want to get rid of somebody, we keep after them until we break them, they break enough times they are out. Harassment more like it!
So be fore armed!
I know!!!
Right now, I do not know where to go. I like much of the job and am good at it, but like you say, your days are numbered!
jockbir
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