Deadbeats

[eyeswideclosed]

Anybody else have a lot of deadbeats where they work? I think that is such a morale and budget killer. We are about half deadbeats, and they are treated the same as the hard workers, it is truly baffling. You want to defeat outsourcing? Get rid of all the deadbeats, that'll save 50% of the IT budget right there, then you'll see India and China shrivel up and blow away. Oh btw I'm just a "Regular American", don't have a clue why I chose that stupid handle.

 

[GSmitherman]

I feel your pain "Eyes". The last place I worked was full of deadbeats. 10% of the staff was doing 90% of the work. We had a company meeting and was told we could speak openly without fear of reprisal. I spoke up about the deadbeats. I said if the company hurting so bad we can not get a pay raise (only 1 pay raise in the last 4 years) and the company was starting to take money from us, maybe everyone should be pushing from the same side of the wagon. The end result was I was fired 3 days later.
After being without a job for 3 hours, I was hired by a company that everyone seems to work together. I am much happier. The lesson here is be careful of what you say.

PS..I worked for this company for over 7 years. No one worked as much on the road as I did. The last year I worked there on average I spent almost 1 out of every 2 days in a hotel. I installed PBX's and voicemail systems. My work performance was outstanding. Since my dismissal I have heard they are struggling to replace me. End the end I guess it is true about he who laughs last.

 

[eyeswideclosed]

What a bunch of creeps, well you're better off without them, glad you found something better. But you see my point, the elimination of slackers and incompetents should be the way to higher profitibility, not outsourcing to slave-wage countries where the work is substandard anyway.

 

[GSmitherman]

I see and agree "Eyes". I don't know why Executive Management doesn't see.

 

[eyeswideclosed]

It is depressing. I think the problem stems from the fact that many IT managers and PMs (ick) are not programmers, I have always thought this was a huge mistake and accounts for many of the problems we see today. Where I work now the boss is a working programmer, makes all the difference, it should be the norm.

 

[flapeyre]

Second that. All the bosses here were promoted from the programmer ranks. Means a lot to us worker bees.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[GSmitherman]

Once again I agree with "Eyes". At my last job, when the Service Manager was someone with a technical background everything was smooth. Now they have a woman who knows nothing and when asked a question she giggles like Betty Rubble. I love working with people who know the product or products the install and support. While I agree a Manager doesn't need to know everything, if they know little or nothing the deadbeats get lazier.

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Yeah, and I love it when people ask "how many programmers do we need to do X?" uh, well, let's see, are they ignorant/deadbeats? Well then an infinite number won't be sufficient. Can you find ONE really good one? Well then that's sufficient. Is a good one overworked and you want to give him 2 deadbeat/ignoramuses to "help" him? Well then, the good one's productivity just went down 90%, and thus, overall project ETA just increased 90%, and the good one will probably leave now. You can't just throw bodies at this stuff! You have to pick the right body! And YOU are not qualified to do so! I better stop, I'm really getting depressed...

 

[eyeswideclosed]

I was speaking rhetorically there, of course..

 

[mikeydidit]

It seems that once most people get into a salary position, that they do not have evaluations done anymore. Here I and all of my staff are paid an hourly wage and all of us have a yearly evaluation done. This helps me as a manager to point out to those employees that may not being doing what they need to, what is expected of them. I can hold their raise for 6 months and then rate them or not give it at all. I have never had to do either but I do have that option.

If you get paid the same for being a slacker or for busting your butt, you will have those who will be a slacker bottom line. It's just how some people are.


"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something."
(Plato)

 

[eyeswideclosed]

That sounds like a pretty good system. I think the problem in a lot of places is that management does not really have the ability to properly evaluate the performance of programmers or IT people in general, and also there seems to be great difficulty cutting somebody loose even after they have been identified as incompetent or a slacker. And interview processes? What a joke.

 

[Corran007]

That the company let you go after speaking up is inexcusable gsmitherman.

The problem with this is who determies what a deadbeat is? How do you accuratly determine what constitues a deadbeat? Strictly a manager evaluation? Are they qualified to be able to do an accurate assessment of thier technical abilites? Evaluation on amount of work performed? Lots of things can impact work actually done. I myself cannot progress on something right now since i am waiting for the information i require from somone before proceding. Peer review? Are you sure they wont just become a popularity contest? Combination? How to resolve differences in opinion between different methods?

At my current company, the managers have a technical understanding, if not a technical background. They are capable of evaluating your abilites and your contributions. We use a combo of self evaluation and manager evaluation to come up with a score. Goes before a comitte that does evaluation and is not in the direct supervision chain of the employee. Pay increses and promotions are directly tied to your evaluation score. The higher performaners move up faster and get paid more. the nomral ones still go up but no where as much. Those being below a threshold are placed on probation. The subsiquent one requires significant improvement or it results in desmissal. Its not as bad as i think it was ibm who used to terminate the bottem 10% every year. Works fairly well i think. I would still proably add peer evaluation as input for the manager to look at but not have any direct affect on your score. Ive had a couple coworkers that the manager did not feel was that valuable but his coworkers found invaluable to get the work done. Its all a matter of perception.

 

[eyeswideclosed]

You've hit on the major problem 007, in my experience it is usually only the "good" programmers who really see who the deadbeats are, the only ones really qualified to do so, and these people usually are not in a position to do anything about it, and there is usually political crap getting in the way of speaking up about it. It's so frustrating.

 

[sstoppel]

The Burmese have a saying, "The stick pokes where you already hurt." You were punished for exposing the truth. Congrats on landing on your feet. A company that allows that to happen is doomed.

 

[chiph]

The key to pointing out problems in most organizations is not to do it in public -- despite management's assurances of no reprisals. Instead, do it in private. "Hey boss, I didn't want to say this in front of the others, but the widget build process has a problem where it..."

Remember: Praise in public, criticize in private.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[DataDog]

Around here we call them a "ROAD" (Retired On Active Duty). They do nothing but take up space and breath MY air. Management does NOTHING. I wish I knew where the ROADs got the pictures.

DataDog
'Failure Is Not An Option'

 

[Golom]

I don't know why Executive Management doesn't see ...

Because the deadbeats were hired by management. When you decide to speak your mind and state aloud that "Good old Harry hasn't done anything useful in the last 10 years" (or words to that effect) you are not only taking a shot at good old Harry but also at the Executive VP that hired him 15 years ago; at his current department head; at his current supervisor; etc., etc.

Management jealously guards their perogatives and at or near the top of the list is their right to judge performance and give or withhold rewards for it.

You should probably also note that, just because they are in management doesn't mean that they are not deadbeats themselves. The Peter Principle says that everyone rises to their level of incompetence and management are more susceptible than low-level workers to have achieved that lofty pinacle.

 

[eyeswideclosed]

That thought had occurred to me, that they can't admit they made a mistake in hiring someone and therefore take any criticism of that person personally, well it could very well be true, but is still pretty lame, keeping dead weight forever because you can't admit to a mistake, sad, and then the message to everyone is that performance doesn't matter, then you spawn even more of them.

 

[Martin999]

Same everywhere - people get away with **** as they've got the gift of the gab.

Few examples spring to mind, not picking up the phone when on call, so the call goes to someone not on call that week (usually me it seems), closing h/desk calls to get their stats up, with fixing the problem properly ... the list is endless.

What about management, some seem to do * all, and stay in a job, pulling big money, whilst contributing verry little.

My dad summed it up once ...

The Secretaries are out, nothing gets done, the management are out and nothing stops .... spot on.

M

 

[HungryHouse]

I'm sorry to go back to the post from "GSmitherman (Programmer) 30 May 06 15:55 " but that Betty Rubble comment is slaying me....lol!!!

On a serious note, I agree with several posts that several organizations (including ours)have deadbeats, and some get paid handsomely and are in the same position as those that are working their tail off.

I used to get pissed off at these types and look for ways to "expose" them, however, I have learned something invaluable over the years.
You reap what you sow.

As co-workers, you may not see the bad fruit now, however, I truly believe in this concept, and it brings solice while observing those that take advantage of the good system set up by so many employers.

Heck, it may not even be in this life. I won't make this into spriritual post, however, cheaters and swindlers alike, deadbeats fall in right there, and I believe they will get whats coming to them.

I don't believe there is a great solution perse, however, the best way to handle is with one's attitude towards it. Do not let it affect how hard you work and the personal integrity that you bring to the workplace. Some managers will catch it, others won't. How you react it, and brew about it, and treat others and your own work is up to you.
Set the example...be the example.

Have a great weekend all.