Crunched the CPU ? 2

[Grunt2002]

Hello,

Yesterday a friend of mine tried to mount a new pc by himself. I helped him because I am familiar with pc mounting except about fixing the cpu (what he did anyway although I advised him to ask a reseller to do it).

The system does not start. There is an agp card that should display its bios and then, if I am right, the mobo bios should display its ram test, even without having the cpu detected.

When powering up, all connected devices get power (cd, hdd are working, while not booting). The screen displays a black frame (I have seen it was displaying a black image because there is a difference between a 'displayed' black color and the 'no-display' black color.

Two mistakes can have been made according to me :

1. Power supply is 200 W. I have read anywere that my buddy's cpu asks for 300 W : 1.8 AMD Thouroughbred. Could it be that ? Peripherals seem to get stream.

2. Could it be the cpu that has been crunched ? He fixed the cpu very carefully using the zif, and I bet this has done no damage. Then he put thermal paste on the center of the cpu (where one can see chips). Then he put (ouch) the heatsink and fan, obviously having to push it quite hard.

Thanks for helping,

Grunt

 

[BadBigBen]

Yo, sounds like he did a splendid job to me!

the problem seems to me like there is a wrong setting of the FSB (front side bus) on the system... recheck the manual for the mobo and reset the fsb for the cpu in use... and double check if the mobo even accepts the cpu...

about the psu (power supply) yes it could hamper the thing but not keep it from posting... suggestion is a 300w psu so you'll have enough back up power for all the peripherials...

another suggestion - disconnect the ide and floppy, no cards installed except the gfx card, and ram... if it posts (BIOS screen comes up) then you add one little item at a time before installing the OS... (make sure the power is off when you add a card to the system, meaning cable pulled from the psu)...

Ben

PS - post what mobo is in use and what else he has installed on it (mem, HD's CD's) anything usefull...

 

[Grunt2002]

Thank you very much ;-)

We proceeded as you advise : we disconnected antything but the agp card to test the psu scenario... nothing changed.

The mobo is compatible with the cpu, it's an Asus A7N8X Deluxe with nForce2 chipset. The cpu is a 1.8 Thouroughbred.
The fan is certified 'till 2 ghz (Taisol). Thermal paste has been put over the copper frame in the center but also a bit around (over the 8 little metallic things around the main central frame).

Rams are 2 256 mb 333 ddr (bulk) and support dual channel. We mounted it correctly according to the mobo's manual (using the combination of bays 1 and 3). We tried also any combination for the rams, even installing only one ram.

I have read elsewhere that it should work with a 200 W psu at least having disconnected the drives.

I also have seen a picture of a crunched cpu. We haven't dismantled the heatsink yesterday. I think I'll do it, and if there's a big pancake under it, the answer will be obvious.

But, could you tell me if a bios is supposed to load even without a cpu or with a crap cpu ?

My own system is a P4 on an Asus mobo, and I am sure it beeps (4 times I think) if powered up without a cpu installed (it is one of the mobo's diagnostics that are so helpful when using Asus stuff).

In this case, no sound comes out, but this could be a problem with the case connectors.

Thanks, we will check for the FSB. I suppose there are jumpers to set in a certain position so that it goes 533 or 400 or 333 or something ? I thought that those things were automatic.

 

[paparazi]

Here is a bit of a first start check list:
But Note*
Your CPU should only have paste on the small rectangular raised core and none at all on the rest of the CPU! it is possible with certain types of paste to damage the CPU by applying it to the main body of the processor.
Check the following:
1) when you mounted the motherboard in the case did you make sure the brass stand off's (mounting posts) were only placed in the proper positions at the (bare solder points on the motherboard only.
2) When you mounted the heatsink onto the processor did you make sure it was the correct way around? there is a recess in the base of the heatsink which must be mounted over the socket "A" writing of the CPU socket, otherwise the heatsink will not sit squarely on the CPU core and will overheat.
3) The processor heatsink/fan MUST be connected to the CPU fan header and not the system fan header, otherwise it will spin up for just a couple of seconds and stop.
4) Reset the Cmos either with the Cmos clear jumper or by removing the battery for 30seconds.
5) Run bare bones: Processor heatsink/fan, power supply, memory, and graphics card only, pull off all your front panel wires and physically bridge the PW (power) terminals with a flat blade screwdriver.
6) Just fit the one stick of memory for now.
One last note*
If tried to boot even for just a few seconds without a heatsink/fan or with the heatsink/fan incorrectly fitted it is likely that the processor is fried.
Martin


Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[BadBigBen]

Thanx paparazi, about the note on the thermal paste...

when I read that more than the die got covered my hair raised at the neck and sweat poured out from my forehead... *g

to clean up the cpu use only ALCOHOL at a concentration of 96% or more (no Jim Beam but Everclear...) use compressed air to blow out the silicon from around the die (while wet with alcohol) and let it thoroughly dry out... (this is my opinion and is not technically approved... do at your own RISK)...

GRUNT - follow what paparazi suggest, it is sound and he is a better knowledged Tech than I'm...

Ben

 

[Grunt2002]

Thank you all,

I tested my own 400 watt enermax psu without any result.
The we removed the heatsink...
The cpu core has a grey spot in a corner, and we cleaned everything we could. But we found small metallic particles mixed within the paste. I am sure he fried his cpu or at least damaged it gluing everything with the paste.
I think the best thing he has to do is buy a nex cpu and let the reseller place it himself.

By the way, I would advise noone to buy a cheap cooler : the taisol my buddy has got must be clipped around the socket with great force, just by pulling metallic pieces with your fingers/screwdrivers. Moreover, this operation caused the paste to glide out of the cpu core while he was attaching the fan, because he couldn't keep it still. As a result, everything on the cpu was sticky but the core

I am very happy I bought a quality one that has 2 integrated levers to place it smoothly and easily.

I think a copper spacer is worth its price ;-)

 

[finast]

I have a thought. Feel free to disagree. Do you have a stick of PC2100? Try that to match the CPU and see if it posts. I did read that these boards a picky about using 333. If it does, maybe you can set the CPU/DDR speed, power all the way off and try the 333.<br>My two cents worth.

 

[Grunt2002]

Thanks for trying to give us a last hope. I do have 266 ddr at home. Will bring one to his place and try. Who knows ? maybe it is as simple as that (my first intuition was : no bios post means no ram, 'cause I am convinced asus boards do launch post without cpu !).

Anyway... thank you all.

 

[paparazi]

Grunt2002
The grey spot in a corner, as you put it, sounds like you have chipped the core, it should be absolutely and perfectly rectangular without fault and even though it probably doesn't look bad could be the cause of tha failure.
Damaged cores are nearly always down to ham fisted heatsink fitment (sorry don't mean any disrespect) I know I can be a bit blazé about how easy socket &quot;A&quot; heatsinks are to fit generally but I've struggled as well, some clip designs are just the pits.
Just one last note* the small amount of paste on the core is supposed to &quot;squeeze out&quot; it is not intended to be a layer between the two mating surfaces just a filler.
The paste expells and replaces the microscopic air pockets that would otherwise form between the two imperfectly matching surfaces, allowing for the best possible heat transfer between CPU core and heatsink base.
Martin

Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[price351]

Did you try reseating the graphic's card e.t.c

 

[Grunt2002]

Hello everybody, especially price351 (lucky one, gets a star) and thank you very much.

Our problem has been solved. I feel stupid having searched (and asked for help) for so long without having tested the most likely cause : the agp card was not fully plugged.
Actually, it was not obvious to detect as no contact pins were visible and given we had pushed hard enough, letting us hear the &quot;click&quot; and have the rear panel metallic piece perfectly in line with the case chassis. Actually, the case is an old mini AGP tower - a very low cost one, and it just is not deep enough to allow the agp card to be correctly inserted. Hehe. Yesterday, we tried a last time to rebuild the system, but outside the case beacause it was faster

Then it worked. Nice story.

As a conclusion, amd processors are very solid. They resist to paste flooding, heatsink screwing, alcohol cleaning, and several times ;-)

 

[BadBigBen]

Hola, Glad to hear that you all got it solved...

*jumping in the air and grinning like a little child we are...* (just a joke on the side)

glad also that you have posted that it is solved and what the cause was...

Ben