Cross talk on home phone, please help

[njadmin]

I've tried searching but didn't really find anything.
Seems I have a problem with x-talk in my apartment. It's obviously intermittent and hard to get the condition for Verizon tech to test. I was wondering if anyone might have some ideas on how to troubleshoot something like this when you only have access to one half of the problem. I know somebody opened the NID box and I've had VZ come out and verify and close it. Our building has the old POTS caps from the 20's (the ceramic screw type) on the inside of the building and I don't see any obvious cross overs. The line doesn't ring through but I can hear dial tone and talking fairly clear while I'm on a call. I'm just wonder what steps I could take here.

Thanks

Jason

 

[doktor]

Cross talk is especially observed when the cores are wet.
E.g. during rain you will hear more cross talk of any type than on a pair of dry cores.
Other problems like an old type MDF (Multi Distribution frame) could also cause this issue, but I think wet cable - and of course damaged cables (pealed off insulation) will not decerase cross talk.

///doktor

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

The crosstalk could have occured in the line way before your house. I would just keep after verizon and tell them you want new pairs from the CO all the way to your house.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[njadmin]

I've been trying to get a VZ tech to come out when I'm home so I can at least talk with them but that hasn't happened yet. I've even thought of calling my business VZ rep to see if they could put a "real" tech on it (I've known some of the guys they send over the years).

Any thoughts on the best way to try and shoot it before I try calling VZ again? Right now I have my butt set at home to make sure it's not the new phones we just bought (did this before too and could still hear it).

 

[PERRYPJ]

It is must likely not a metallic cross, it what they call a split pair. This is when your pair leaves the CO and somewhere in the field one side of your pair is used with one side of another,the a little further down the road before it gets to you it gets corrected.
You will hear Dial Tone, people talking, and ring but you will not be able to talk to them.
Tell Verizon you want your cable pair changed


OLD ROLMEN WORKING ON NORTELS AND AVAYA

 

[SYQUEST]

To start, you need to verify the condition of all the wiring between the protector and the jacks. Is the wiring multi-pair, twisted 3-wire, or Quad? Since you mentioned the protector is from the 1920s, you may have deteriorated insulation that could cause crosstalk from being close to other bad wiring. If that checks out, then open a repair ticket with VZ repair service. Repair can test the outside plant and determine the balance of the existing pair to know what is happening to it.

In this day of fiber in VZ land, you may have to escalate to a supervisor to get the pair changed. Their response is really lacking for simple problems anymore, especially in the old GTE areas...

....JIM....

 

[njadmin]

From what I can tell the wiring is from the 20's (at least it looks that old). I was thinking of trying to run some new CAT5 but I don't know if the landlord/manager would let me. I know they won't do it since it's in "working condition" as far as they are concerned.

Is there any way to check the balance with a multi meter?
Also the wiring from the NID to the inside is a complete mess, it looks like a birds nest which I'm sure isn't helping. I'm starting to think I might just be SOL with this other then bitching to VZ to change the cable pair.

 

[njadmin]

One other thing is it possible that somebody might have done this deliberately (if so how without a full x-over)? This has been an ongoing issue for the last year or so, and over the summer I had my CC number stolen. This is the only thing I can thing of that might have contributed to that happening (I never used the card on line only in person and two or three phone orders).

Not trying to sound paranoid but with my neighbors you never know.

 

[Dexman]

The Network Interfaces that Verizon installs today contain a jack that will isolate the inside wiring from the outside network.

Verizon repair does have an automated test system (at least in the New England area) and they should be contacted to run that test when crosstalk is heard.

As has been noted earlier, the most common causes of crosstalk are split pairs and water damage to cables pairs.

The upshot is Verizon Repair will need to test, locate & resolve the issue. Keep hounding on them.

The general feeling is that Verizon wants to exit the local dialtone business. That is believed to be part of the reason why the company sold off its Maine, New Hampshire & Vermont networks to Fairpoint Communications earlier this year.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[Westi]

If you have access to a butt set then monitor the line just for fun and listen to it until you might hear the other conversation and be able to find something that points you to owner of the other line. This might take quite a bit of time to hear what you want to hear and the real troubleshooting is probaby a faster way to go.
With a line tester the tech should be able to find line imbalances faster but that is the first test any tech would (or should) have done.

Joe W.

FHandw., ACS

I don't suffer from insanity
I enjoy every moment of it

 

[SYQUEST]

Depending on your unit's proximity to the NIDs, and any reluctance from the landlord, you could just replace the wiring for yours. Then at least, you can have working service.

Now, if you have the experience with this type of wiring and feel competent, you might propose to the landlord, to "clean up" the mess at the NIDs and/or replace some wiring, obviously for a fee. Another angle might be checking with the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) about the wiring conditions. This and may be others could be violations the NEC codes, and that could be used to force the landlord's hand to get this fixed. In the end all the tenants would benefit, and the landlord would have up-to-date wiring. One less problem for someone to bitch!

....JIM....

 

[pbxn]

A few things to consider. Open the wall jack in your kitchen, this is where "most" homeruns are installed in apartment complex's and tell us what you see (Quad, 25, 50 pair etc). Say you have a 25 pair feeder there, clip your head set on the pairs that are terminated to the green/red terminals of your wall jack and listen for dialtone, now with dial tone pegged on your headset, clip one side of the cable, perferrably in the direction going up. If cross talk goes away, its the main feeder going past your apartment. If the cross is still there, its between your apt and the NID or the outside plant.
As stated if this doesn't do it, demand new cable pairs from CO to apt.

 

[njadmin]

Can somebody tell me if I really need to have these old insulators on my line??

I know at work I don't have anything like that so I would assume no, but I'd just like to make sure before I cut them out of my loop. One side looks damaged and might be causing this problem. I'll try to get a picture of them.

 

[Dexman]

Is the isolator a 1 or 2 piece white porcelain unit with a round center cap and 2 long fuses?

http://www.countryjoescollectiblestuff.com/media/images2/round-lightning.jpg

Those Western Electric units were installed by the Bell System many years ago. A spike would blow one or both fuses. Later on, the telephone company strapped the fuses out with metal "jumpers".

If Verizon has a modern NID on the line, then the old isolator is no longer needed.

Every so often such units appear on eBay and are of interest to people who collect vintage telephone system hardware.

Now you did say that the wiring is a mess at the interface. Unless you are comfortable and proficient in working with something like that, my advice is to hire a professional to clean it up.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[njadmin]

yep that's it!

I'm pretty sure the fuses aren't there and the one side of mine look like it might be cracked. I forgot to grab a pic last night but this weekend I'll start trying to figure out what's going on with the wiring.

 

[Dexman]

Now the device itself won't cause crosstalk. If you do decide to remove it, you could try to clean it up and maybe sell it on eBay.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[njadmin]

I don't think the landlord would like that very much, but it's something I'll keep in mind if I ever want to piss them off.

 

[letman2]

cross talk can happen when the cable pairs do not have the proper twist in them. I have seen it alot in old wiring. One thing I have done in the past is put a tone generator on my line and using a butt set see if I hear the tone on another line. If I hear the tone then I would isolate to eather the Verizon side or the inhouse wiring.

 

[Dexman]

I don't think that the overhead copper cables used by the various LECs have twisted pairs. So much so, the cable is said to be CAT0 (as opposed to CAT3 CAT5 and so on).

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[SYQUEST]

The typical Outside Plant does have twisted pairs, but not to the extent of Category rated cable. OSP cables do NOT have any CAT rating since they are NOT used for Ethernet!

The OSP cable design impedance is in the 600 to 1200 ohm depending on termination equipment and other factors.

The Category rating only applies to UTP used for Ethernet transmission.

....JIM....