Cross platform font problems...

[Rlah]

This question is prompted from recent thread where someone said they use different platforms regularly - i.e. Mac at home, PC at work.
I work in a print shop where we use both - and it is a big problem mainly with the fonts. The Mac people seem to always use unusual fonts. Or they name their fonts differently than the same font on the PC:
CB Futura CondensedBold vs. Futura-CondensedBold

When I want to open the comp dept's Mac PM 6.5 or 7.0 files, invariably there is another font issue. I'm not particularly strong on graphics/fonts but I need to open their files to make minor adjustments. I already know how to get the Mac fonts onto my PC... the question is rather a font management issue.
How do other shops do it? Surely we are not the only one that uses both platforms.

 

[carlow]

Hi,

My print shop used to use a pc to print pc-files and a mac for the mac files. This is way to do it.

But if you don't want to buy a mac, just ask your suppliers to have the file converted to pdf. No fonts needed, no images needed, so the hassle is over. I would suggest that you play around with the distiller settings first yourself. Than when you are satisfied with the printed result give these settings to your clients and ask them to put them in the apropriate folder. Now you will get pdf files with your preferences used.

hope this helps
grillhouse

 

[Rlah]

Thx grillhouse. I'm aware of the PDF-Distiller process - I use it when necessary.
However your answer implies there is no way to work with both platforms 'in-house'... no way to successfully trade files semi-regularly for editing. Is this really true? It flies in the face of the user (lebr01) that works "everyday on my Mac at home and on a Windows Compatible machine at work... PageMaker 6.5 at home and PageMaker 6.5 at work and it's completly transparent wether I save, open, change things and re-save on neither plateform."

I envy lebr01.

 

[viol8ion]

Rlah,

As long as they save as, and include all files for remote printing, and as long as they use the same vs as you have, then the only real problem you will have is with fonts.

Grill house is right, having the client save as a PDF, you specify the distiller settings, is really the only foolproof way to ensure compatibility cross-platform. Mac fonts and PC fonts are different, and invariably, you will end up having to purchase or your clients will end up purchasing PC versions of the Mac Fonts, and you will run into numerous problems converting them. When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[Rlah]

Thx viol8ion. I was sad to read your words "then the only real problem you will have is with fonts" implying there will *always* be problems.
One last followup to this. I was talking with one of our trade printers (we are also a broker) who said they go with the standard Adobe font library. Is this maybe a way to get closer to a "foolproof way to ensure compatibility" between platforms? (Of course this may be nearly impossible when our customers want us to use their *special* font.)

 

[viol8ion]

Rlah,

If you insist that your clients only use the standard Adobe fonts, and you do the same, you will eliminate the bulk of your font headaches. You will pay a bit more for the PS fonts, but you can rest assured that they are quality type, and you will be more easily able to convert cross-platform. When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[carlow]

Hi,

But limiting on witch font library will not be eas&aly accepted by the designers. They will not give up there creativity, only for your sake. I think you offer a service to the designers so they will think twice if you limit them. If another printer shop offers a broader service they will change and go for "no limitations I presume.

grillhouse

 

[viol8ion]

>I think you offer a service to the designers so they will think twice if you limit them. If another printer shop offers a broader service they will change and go for "no limitations I presume.

I have noticed a trend among 'Mac' people also.. knowledgeable users on Mac have very little comprehension of cross-platform limitations or quirks, whereas many knowledgeable PC people are more easily able to understand the limitations and take proper actions. I am of course referring to users that are in the publishing business, not general computer users, where some I have seen are quite dense.

Grillhouse is right, and if you limit them and they have alternative vendors that do have Mac, then they will leave you in the dust. The good news is that some of the less expensive Macs are running at $995 complete these days, and are quite affordable. A few good jobs will pay for the system.
When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[Rlah]

One more comment...
It seems to me that if there was not the font issue between the platforms, then the Mac would not continue it's hold on the graphics trade (ignoring perhaps some advantages that the Mac has in handling fonts). But since the font issue is very real (as the above discussion shows), then the Mac is a very viable system and viol8ion's comments are quite practical.

From my standpoint, it is aggravating... our shop had hoped at one time to switch the graphics (i.e. all Adobe apps) to our existing business PCs. I guess that hope is gone (forever?).

 

[viol8ion]

As long as Mac holds the hearts of those in the graphics industry, and as much as I am loathe to admit it, Mac is the best platform for pre-press, we will be stuck with 2 platforms. Almost everyone I deal with in the pre-press business uses Macs for page imposition and graphics editing.

This will continue unless someone comes along with an app that will convert Mac fonts to PC Fonts, and vice-versa.

The only sure-fire way around this limitation other than 2 platforms is to have all files converted to PDF. But that eliminates the possibility of editing the file, unless you have a $10,000 application for editing PDFs. When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[carlow]

I'm a mac and a pc user, but very fond of the mac OS, and as I read on one of the mar rumor sites it is beleived that the OS X will be made available for PC's. Let's hope so.

grillhouse

 

[Eggles]

grillhouse - now that's something I haven't heard about before - making the Mac OSX available to PCs. Would it really work?

Regarding cross platform font issues. Aren't the new Adobe open fonts supposed to hurdle that final barrier for cross-platform compatibility? Or are these what you were referring to, viol8ion?

Re: ..."and as much as I am loathe to admit it, Mac is the best platform for pre-press, we will be stuck with 2 platforms. Almost everyone I deal with in the pre-press business uses Macs for page imposition and graphics editing".

I am interested in your comment that although you come across as a PC user, you still beleive that Macs have the edge in pre-press? Why? Can you give specific examples?

 

[viol8ion]

From what I have seen, Open Type fonts have been shaky at best... and a shame because they sound like a solution. I have had, and heard of mixed results with open type fonts and PM.

I heard the same rumor that grillhouse is mentioning... I will definately be in line for that... anything to escape Bill Gate's stranglehold...

As long as Mac is the preferred platform of prepress, it will be the preferred platform for DTP... and I have had several projects that I had to sub out by necessity to peope that have Macs because my employer will not invest in one. It seems, at least in my experience, that Macs handle extremely large graphics files better than PC... I crashed mine here 20 times in an afternoon before giving p and handing the file over to someone with a Mac that was able to impose a vector image onto 11x14 film negatives. They use both, and said that none of their PCs would handle the image either, only their Macs. Maybe isolated case, but it saved me from defiling the air with bad language abd curses.. and saved me from tossing my PC out the window... not to mention my sanity!

In all honesty, I doubt there is anything that one platform can do that the other cannot do equally well... but I lay my money on what the marketplace is using... and Mac still rules DTP even though PCs are making inroads.

Of course, that is just my biased opinion :~p When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[carlow]

One of the problems I have with PC's is that it is difficult to handle or reorganize the way windows uses the RAM memory. On a mac you can easily give some more RAM memory to an application, and this often helps to do complex jobs.

OS X is based on Unix, so it won't be so difficult to create a PC version of the OS. But if they will do it, there will be a battle going on between Microsoft and Apple. I wonder if Steve will take this battle to Bill.

grillhouse

 

[viol8ion]

>I wonder if Steve will take this battle to Bill

Bill owns a chunk of Steve... MS owns a good sized chunk of stock of Apple so I assume we will see some action on that front.

I am a PC guy myself... but I run NT and 98 on my boxes. I refuse to upgrade simply because of the abundance of spyware Bill builds into every OS till he is now watching what web istes you visit, what music you play on a CD on your machine and keeping apermanent record of every email you send and recieve. With the advent of Palladium (do a search on google) MS will decide what apps you run and every software vendor will have an open door to your computer. If the DTP apps that are available for *nix improve to the point that they are comparable to PM and Quark, I will finaly make a permanent jump. Until then, Mac is looking better and better every day, as long as they can keep Bill's filthy hands off of it.

Okay, I am off of my soapbox, now. When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[calvinkim]

I know I'm replying to an old posting. But I'd like to share my thought here. First, I searched and ended up in this thread because one of my dear friend had and still has so-called "cross platform font" issue. She is using Illustrator 9 in Mac OS 9, burns the damned thing including linked pix and fonts, trys to open it in Windoze eXtraPain, realizing that the fonts weren't copies accordingly.
I am a linux die-hard penguinista with networking background, and color/design blinded. If I burn the CD in HFS format, everything is copied fine including fonts, but can be read only in another Mac or linux. If I burn in other formats like ISO/Joliet, the fonts are not copied, but only fonts' filename. This is such strange behavior for me since I don't know the architecture of HFS from my heart. I noticed that when I read HFS in linux, font file is just a name and actual file is hidden away in a directory(folder) which is also hidden, resulting struggle of some endless nights with good number of wasted CD-Rs.
The choice/freedom is the one of the important aspect for the customer/user. I see all of you, struggling, locked-in behind the bar. The user should be able to choose whatever fits his need, and at the same time, able to communicate gracefully with other user who might be using other platforms. I think this is *THE* Quality of Service. Both Apple and Microsoft are suck at this.

Someone mentioned PC version of OSX. Well, I don't see that happening any time soon. Every company who waged full scale war against Microsoft failed and faced mutilated death. Apple knows the history and she will not take the same road of perdition. There is one movemment colliding head to head against Microsoft. OSS/FSF(Open Source Software/Free Software Foundation) with Linux in front of it. Linux is the lone mujahadeen (freedom fighter) in end-user's perspective and terrorist to Microsoft. Linux is cancer, un-ethical and un-American according to Microsoft executives. Maybe it's a variant of SARS infecting everyone who is in 40 miles in radius, haha. Apple will wait to see aftermath of this war. That's at least five to ten years from now. If linux wins this war (and I firmly believe it will) Apple may find confidence to port its OS XVII perhaps to PC platform, but will realize that it's too late to do so. sad.



One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all... And in the GPL free them.