CP App Builder Help?

[indnajns]

While I've worked with Meridian Mail Menus for many years, I have been handed a Call Pilot system that was set up by, shall we say, non-telecom-types. Our entire menu is in one application, sub-menus and all, in one nasty nest because someone wanted it to all fit on one page. (Well, it doesn't.) This is my first experience with App Builder, and while I would hope a menu is a menu is a menu, the new nomenclature ("applications", etc) is confusing me. I've figured out where my Voice Service IDs went (and ours are all defaults, no numbering plan), but the big question is, "What about sub-menus?" In Mermail sub-menus were/had their own VSID and you pointed menu options to them. Can you still do that and how in App Builder? I really, really need to. You should SEE this thing.

One other, kinda important question: How does one unlock a menu the system swears you have locked but don't? I managed to exit without first closing an app and I can't get back to it to unlock it. I'm logging in as myself, just as I did when I first had it open, but everything's greyed out on the file menu.

System: Opt 11c running Succession 3.0 (at least that's the vers they tell me I'm running.)
CP Vers: 2.01

 

[Reusser]

Apllication Menus are so much better than MerMail. Now every thing is in one screen and you can even print it - no more jumping from TOD menu to Menus to Announcements and back.

No need for sub menus but you could have them - just need to define also in Voice Services DN.

Symptoms:
Unable to open application with Application Builder.

Error: The application could not be opened because it is currently being updated by another administrator. Please try again later.

Application Builder can't modify application.

Application Builder files are locked.

Application is locked.


Fix:

Call Nortel Technical Support to restore the locked Application files. Reference solution ID NORT207318.

Sometimes locked or inaccessible applications can be recovered by archiving them to tape and doing a restore using the option to use a different name and appid

 

[johnpoole]

nothing like an inhertied mess. can't do a lot with the numbering plan, app id's are 1000 to 5000 so your stuck with that. for sub menu's, copy and paste the portion you want seperate access to so you can point a vsdn to it. i use names (hr fam pract etc for my apps. and leave the id's default.. while the app is open, click file, properties then the security tab, that allows you to turn on the ability to record from the phone, using prompt maint. unlock the application? that ones tough. i can't (and wouldn't) close app builder without closing the application 1st. had one that was hung and was able to save as, then delete it. leaving the original untouched. might need a reboot of the server.

couple of hints, right click the call or express mail boxes, then hh, that hides the output boxes for that box, doesn't change the targets, the right click on the lines between menu choices and the targets, the line goes red, ctrl L, hides that line and adds flags.. another clean up trick.. a menu is a menu and you'll find that the gui is a lot faster then mermail, i've done 100 mermails and 4 call pilots, still like mermail, but pilot is eaiser to teach

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[indnajns]

Thank you for the info so far. Will see what works on getting this thing unstuck. Hate to reboot. Takes down a small 24-hr HelpDesk when I do. It really wasn't a matter of "wanting" to quit without closing, I hit Exit and the silly thing let me. You'd think there'd be some kind of warning on something so important, but Nortel's been lacking in the warning department ever since they came out with Symposium.

As for App #s, can they be 5 digit and still in the 1000 - 5000 range?
And do all VSDNs have to be in the dialable DN range?

 

[johnpoole]

that range is not for vsdn, the 1000 to 5000 is application id's, that's not a dialable number. you need that id to record that app. warnings are never a big part of nortels plan, but then i get tired of microsoft asking are you sure a few million times. never did figure out why you need to click start to turn off the box and then it takes 30 minutes, to make sure you really want to close the box, this app is not responding, are you sure you want to close it, you may lose... no kidding, i was trying to reboot because the app froze... any way i degress. i train to always close the save then close the file before the closing the app, some users want to close the app and not save changes, due to a mistake, best in this box to save as and delete that then to close the app... my pc froze with 2 menus open and a ton of stuff in the buffer (major cut) i had to boot the server and start over... not a very user friendly box

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[indnajns]

I agree about MS asking about 20 times too many if I really want to do something, but I would't mind Nortel at least asking once. Not all of us get the luxury of training! Although all the training in the world doesn't help at 2am when you're bleary eyed, under pressure, and not prone to remembering which 'x' to click first.

Is the old VSDN equatable to the new VSDN?
Is the new App ID equatable to the old VSID? And if so, why did they limit the range to 1000-5000?
According to the documentation "If you do not want to use the default application ID, type a unique number from 1000 to 49999." (555-7101-325, pg 47) Is this true? Can the App ID be changed later on?
I've got to find someone who's using this thing right and go see how they're doing it.

Indy

 

[sandyml]

You have pointed out a fundamental difference between Meridian Mail and CallPilot menus. With MerMail, you HAD to create separate menus/announcements for nesting, which required each its own ID. CallPilot is designed to hold everything within 1 application, which you link to 1 entry in the SDN (VSDN) table. The advantage to that is that you can see all your programming in one place, you don't have to flip around to each menu to trace everything out.
Now, you don't have to squeeze it all into 1 page; you can spread it out, alter the view size, and move around the page. Removing those lines and "stubbing them out" cleans that up quite a bit.
If you have applications that are "mix and match" -- that is, you might dial one number and get an application directly, or dial another number and get a different menu that may lead into that and other menus, then you might use the "Import" and "Export" blocks. This will link the applications, but can also be a real pain in the a--. The advantage to it is that if you update the "sub" menu, the "main" menu is automatically updated (whereas if you "cut and paste," it is a one-time deal). Basically, you "Export" from the "sub" menu. Then you go to the "main" menu and create an "Import" block, which you can insert onto your page. Delightful reading in the Application Builder NTP, if you're interested...
Avoid just having the main application "transfer" to a VSDN for a sub menu, as that will route the call in/out and is not a real clean transition.

 

[johnpoole]

Avoid just having the main application "transfer" to a VSDN for a sub menu, as that will route the call in/out and is not a real clean transition.

carve that in stone,if you plan on being there a while, those loops can bring a mail down due to cpu requirements. one page can be a plan, nortel added import/export to avoid transfer to a second vsdn..

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[indnajns]

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "route the call in/out"? I don't get it. I do NOT like the idea of stuffing an entire menu, sub-menus, sub-sub-menus all onto one "page" (even if it doesn't all fit on one screen). I happen to LIKE compartmentalization. That "stubbing" idea might help, there. I do like the idea of having the TOD on the same page as the actual item it controls, though. And I'm not sure I buy into that import/export, change-one-change-all mentality either. I may not always want it changed identically in every itteration.
If Mermail could call to VSDNs/VSIDs, why can't Call Pilot?
Can I point to VSIDs, just not recommended I point to VSDNs?
What's the difference between pointing to a VSDN and a regular extension? The VSDN had to have a DN in front of it to get me there in the first place. Is that what you mean by in/out? Back and forth between Call Pilot and the PBX? Is App ID equivical to VSID?
Please excuse the barrage of questions. While I don't mind flying by the seat of my pants, I hate flying blind!

 

[sandyml]

As you mentioned, MerMail just referenced another menu or announcement by VSID (ex: MS 1000 ). CallPilot does not have that architecture. The equivalent to it is the Export/Import function.
MerMail uses VSDNs; CallPilot calls them SDNs. That is a table of numbers (typically dialable and forwarded to the voicemail via dummy queues or phantom DNs) that references services or menus (a/k/a auto attendants, applications).
In MerMail, when you create a MS or AS (menu or announcement), you have to assign it a number, a VSID. CallPilot automatically assigns a number. It was important to keep a numbering scheme in MerMail for VSIDs, so that you could tell a menu from an announcement from a TOD, etc. -- it was not easily discernible from the VSDN table, and the screens were slow. CallPilot's SDN table tells you if it is a service and what type, or an application. There is no difference between an announcement or a menu, you build them in the same place and it's just a matter of what you put in your application.

 

[indnajns]

Well, right clicking and hiding is helping a lot. But what about lines that go off the page? Literally, they go off the top of the page and I can't scroll to them. Can't delete and recreate 'cause I don't know what's out there. Zooming, panning, paging, nothing shows me what's up there. Oh, if someone had only bothered to use the page grid. I know my bias is because I'm experienced on mermail and not CP, but at the moment I'd take slow screens and no cute little icons over this mess.

 

[yyrkroon]

try printing the application, that migh help provide info on stuff that's off the page.

 

[indnajns]

IT"S GOT A TUTORIAL! And it's actually worth something! Vendor is finding me a customer I can visit to see a proper setup, but I think with what you all have told me and what I just learned in the tutorial I can get by until I can totally redo this mess. We have more issues than just messy looking menus. The operator call paths are pretty much in the same shape. Nothing like "job security". Thanks everybody!

 

[sandyml]

Glad to help; let us know how it goes.