convert facing pages to single causes shift

[lazzardo]

I am using MAC InDesign CS2. I have a 96 page document, with facing pages. My printer needs individual pages instead of facing pages. When I use document setup to "uncheck" facing pages, it converts to single pages, but all of the objects on my left had pages shift about 0.5 cm. to the let. I can't figure out why this happens, nor do I want to adjust them all manually. Any pointer?

thanks

 

[lazzardo]

UPDATE:
Even though the only thing on my master pages was page numbers, when I deleted and overrode the master pages, converting to single pages works just fine.

 

[apepp]

...i'm confused about why your print provider is not able to use your document as it is, even if the document set up is set to 'facing pages' you can still output to single pages to pdf or postscript...

...how is this publication bound together, perfect binding, saddle stitch or wiro-bound?

Andrew

 

[apepp]

...did you supply a pdf in spread form to the printer?

If so, this is what your print provider is referring to...

Andrew

 

[lazzardo]

It is going to be perfect bound. I think each page will be individually trimmed instead of printing spreads and folding into signatures.

A problem is that exporting to a singles pages pdf has caused an area of the left hand page to appear on the gutter side of the right hand page and vice versa! Shitty.

The other problem I just discovered is that switching to single pages from faces means you have to go back and add bleed to all of the gutters.

 

[apepp]

...perfect bound publications are folded signatures, much like saddle stitch, however, the imposition used requires gutters to allow for grind off...

...your print provider should be in tune with this...

...left hand pages bleed on the left and right hand pages bleed on the right, what happens on the opposing edges (the spines) falls into the glue of the perfect binding...

..with the cover wrapped around, you end up with a 6 to 7 mm hinge, covers for perfect bound work are typically set as printers pairs in artwork, with a spine allowance formulated from the weight of stock for text and number of pages...

...with a document set up as facing pages is fine in my experience as the spines fall into the glued edge and you won't see about 5mm of the spines edge of artwork...

Andrew

 

[apepp]

...the grind off allowance on the imposition is typically 3mm (minimum), meaning a 6mm gutter on spine edges, created at imposition stage...

...also, to add, perfect bound covers need to have paper (no ink) on the spine allowance (inner side) width so the glue adheres better and the pages don't fall out...

...also perfect bound cover spines don't like being varnished as some glues used won't adhere to that area if they are, but your printer will hopefully be in tune with this too...

Andrew

 

[apepp]

...sounds to me like you are, from what i can gather, doing unnecessary work...

...if it was wiro-bound, then I can understand the need for full bleeds as these pages really are trimmed out individually and so a different approach is required...

Andrew

 

[lazzardo]

Thanks for all the extra information. Some of which I was familiar with, and some not so much. Can you recmommend a good source for book publication info? This is my first major book project and it is complicated by the fact that my client is printing the book in Colombia. I don't speak Spanish so we have a co-ordinator who is speaking with the printer and answering my questions.

thanks again

 

[lazzardo]

My bleed margins are about 3 mm.
Therefore,
if as you say, "the grind off allowance on the imposition is typically 3mm (minimum), meaning a 6mm gutter on spine edges, created at imposition stage" Then my adding a 3mm bleed on the insides of my single pages means I will have a 6mm gutter on spine edges when the printer does the imposition... so perhaps I am on the right track in a round about way.

 

[apepp]

...when the prepress set up the imposition they will allow for a grind off allowance based upon their finishers requirements, it may well be more than 6mm on the spines, but really this value is irrelevant to you as the artworker...

...the actual grind off will finish at the trim mark of the spine, whatever falls into the bleed area will be cut off...

...glue is then applied for the cover to wrap around, finally the remaining three edges are trimmed off...

...even if the spines bleed contains elements of the opposing pages artwork (when you print to single pages from a facing pages document) it will be cut off, and on top of this, you won't see about 5mm of the pages artwork (due to the covers hinge), unless you, with force, flatten down the publication...

...of course, doing this weakens the publication eventually, but nobody reading a perfect bound publication does this, unless they want to peel out a page carefully...

...in short, facing page set ups are fine for perfect bound work...

...if the print provider uses a CTP system then they can set up the imposition templates to not allow bleed on the spines if they wish (clipping), but this step isn't necessary in my experience...

...if they are manually film planning this publication and don't want artwork/ink in the gutters (spine bleed), then what you are doing might well be helpful. But as I mentioned above, the grind off trims down to the spines edge eventually...

...the spine allowance for the cover requires calculation, this you should be able to get from your print provider, unless they are happy to artwork the cover as a spread themselves, then you don't need to worry about it, other than making sure they know what to print on the spine itself (if anything at all)...

Andrew

 

[apepp]

...perfect bound signatures are stacked one on top of the other, so each section (signature) is in page sequence when folded...

...this is very different to saddle stitch signatures, where signatures are inserted into each other, meaning the pages are laid to the sheet size with the first and last page next to each other on the same signature...

...in perfect bound, the first page is on the first section and the last page on the last section for it to work...

Andrew

 

[lazzardo]

Thanks for all the info, but this conversation still hasn't addressed my initial question. When I converted to from facing pages to single pages, a number of the objects on my left hand pages shifted to the left about 0.5 cm. But some pages were just fine and on some pages only a few onjects shifted and some stayed in place? The only thing on thing on my master pages were page number and a few guides. It seemed random to me. Anyone know what happened?

 

[apepp]

...when you convert facing pages to single pages, all pages become based upon left hand master pages that are created in your master pages palette...

...if you had right hand masters used in spread format, they will become ignored in single page mode and you would then have to re-assign the right hand master pages (that still exists in the master pages palette) to the relevant pages...

...once you turn off facing pages, all pages are regarded as left hand pages...

...as you mentioned in your second update post, overriding all master page items and then turning facing pages off in document setup is the only way to retain your right hand master page items. This means that the link is broken (but not completely)...

...indesign makes it easy to make last minute adjustments to entire documents, but too easy in some cases, as it can land you in trouble and a great deal of headache...

...the answer to your question is to keep it as spread format and send it to the print provider as single page PDF...

...you are doing unnecessary work for the type of publication you are producing...

...books, magazines are all typically setup using facing pages, offering the ability to artwork elements spreading across the spine, in single page layout mode this ability becomes a bit more awkward. If you had different images or text spreading across all readers spreads you would face doing twice as much work as is necessary. This is the benefit of keeping it in facing pages...

...leaflets, posters, folders etc are typically setup using single pages...

Andrew