Conference calling volume is very low 1

[cadocs]

Hey guys,

I'm hoping that someone can help me out. I have a Nortel Nostar MICS 6.1 system installed in my house (I have a home business) and I am having trouble with the conference calling feature.

The problem is that when i do a conference call with 2 outside lines, they can not hear each other very well because their volume is extremely low. I can hear both parties fine and they can hear me, however they can't hear each other.

Things that could possibly be causing this are the fact that I have lines coming to my house and not a business. I DO have business accounts set up, but the lines are still copper, not T-1. I have a 1700 ft loop link for my line to the CO.

Things that I have done to try and fix it include changing the loss package to ShortCO, MediumCO and LongCO for all lines and they all result in poor conference calling volume.

My Vendor suggested a long loop adapter, however my distance is only 1700 feet....

PLEASE HELP.

Geoff

 

[bkrike]

Your problem is inherent to any analog line conference call, no matter the manufacturer of the system. The best solution is to use the “link” feature to create a 3 way call. This utilizes the million dollar central office equipment instead of the phone system. It also has the added benefit of only using one of your lines, as opposed to two. You just need to order the feature from your provider. It may even already be on your lines. You can test to see by dialing in, pressing link (feature 71,) dialing the second call, and pressing link again. You then have a 3 way call.

 

[cadocs]

WOW, that was a quick response. Thank you. My problem is that i have 12 phone lines and it costs somewhere around $7 per line to add 3-way calling to each line which is another $85 per month. I paid $5k for my system and all the extras and its just frustrating that i can't use it properly.

I had someone say, just add it to a certain line so you don't have it on all the lines, but that won't work, because we are constantly using random lines and I don't want us to have to wait for a 3-way calling line to become available in order to us it... that's why we have 12 lines.

Is there any alternative to using the CO's 3 way calling, an

 

[bkrike]

Sorry, but my only further recommendation would be for you to try to negotiate a better deal on your dial-tone package so that certain features would be included. If you have 12 lines and there is more than one provider in your area, you could check on better pricing. A lot of providers will even buy out your current contract if you sign a 3-5 year agreement with them. With 12 lines you also have the option of going with a partial T-1, or a T-1 that is set up for half voice, half data.

I have never noticed much of a difference by adjusting loss package. Any device designed to boost conversation volume also tends to boost background noise, which does not really improve the situation.

 

[mforrence]

I agree with bkrike - using CO based conference is the best way to go with analog CO lines. Have you really checked pricing? In most of the areas that we service (US east coast) - centrex service (bundle of features) is closer to $5/line or 3-way calling feature at $3.50. Centrex also lets you transfer callers anywhere (if toll, you pay the cost) - great for transferring callers to colleague's cell phone. You could buy a conference bridge - but cost would be prohibitive. At 12 lines, you are a T1 candidate (would require digital trunk card in phone system). It isn't just Nortel, most systems have this same issue when using digital trunks. Good luck.
MIKE

 

[acewarlock]

Qwest has a special going on now in Houston a full for less than $400.

 

[cadocs]

im in CA so SBC is my carrier.

 

[NARSBARS]

You can try setting the lines to "Long CO" which will boost the volume, if you are lucky, enough to help.

The bad new is that this only works about 25% of the time because this is a known Norstar problem.

If it were a PC I would tell you that it is a feature.


NARSBARS

 

[cadocs]

yeah, i tried longCO, mediumCO and ShortCO, and either worked any better. Also, another issue that keeps me from just using the phone companies 3 way calling is after hours, we have all calls forwarded through the system to a cell phone. This obviously can not be done using 3 way calling since its a system thing.

Thanks for everyone's help and responses. Are you guys sure there isn't anything that can boost the volume, EVEN IF IT GETS A LITTLE DISTORTED??? It would seem to be a current issue, because when you throw that second line on in parallel, that is when the volume drops off.

Thanks Geoff

 

[NARSBARS]

I talked the telco into boosting the lines, but if you can get the local telco to boost the lines amplification it will work, but you will get distortion.
The local telcos do not like to do this as it results is poor line quality all the time. Also as soon as some tech sees the "boost" as a mistake they will take it off and you are back where you started.

I have tried using an amplified handset with variable output level with varying levels of "slightly better" results.

Have you done all the usual, tested line voltage to ground etc?
Good Luck

NARSBARS

 

[cadocs]

i have not tested line voltage as i do not know how to do that. should i get someone to test it? The Telco says everything test fine.

Also, as for getting amplified headsets... I can hear both people just fine and they can hear me, the problem is that they can't hear each other.

Geoff

 

[NARSBARS]

I suggest that you find a vendor to test line voltage and db levels if this is a serious problem. If you can live with it the chance of finding something is low. If you do find something the chance of convincing the local telco is not great either.

There are amplified sets that will boost the OUTGOING volume. I would suggest a headset for this purpose.

If you want to do some testing and try a less expensive gadget go to Mikesandman.com and read his "Loop current Bulletin for testing information.
You could pick up some tips current telephone guys have forgotten since 1A2 left us.

NARSBARS

 

[gmiller1949]

I had the same problem in my Cincinnati field office. SBC came out to test the lines and found them measuring 12db+ of loop loss. They corrected the loss to 3.5 - 5.0 and the problem was resolved. I believe the max allowed loss is 8.0, higher readings, they should correct at no charge.

gm

 

[SYQUEST]

What CO are you served from in CA?

If your loop length is truly 1700' you should have ample transmission unless the cable is bad! You need to have the transmission levels checked by someone that knows what they are doing and has the test equipment to prove it. I have had mucho experience in this area with Pacific Bell and they always say everything is fine! Even when it is NOT and the level is in the mud! Now according to PB's tariff, basic business class of service should have a max loss of -8.0dB @ 600 ohm termination. For a 1700' loop you should be getting -3.5 to -4.5dB loss at the worst. Where I am, I'm at the end of dialtone with a 20,000' loop with load pots and I get -6.2dB loss and one of my other lines gets a -5.9dB loss.

You could also have a bad line module in the Norstar. But if that is not the case and it turns out to be a Pacific Bell cable plant issue then you could change the class of service to PBX ASSURED TRUNKS and get a guarranteed level loss of no more than a -5.0dB. But you will pay a higher monthly rate for assured trunks.

Now back to the PB issue. Their cable plant records are not always accurate. Several years ago I had a similar situation, but dealing with PBX DID trunks and 2-way local trunks on an SL1 PBX. Turns out I added six more DID trunks and two more locals, all assured transmission requesting a -3.5dB loss when I placed the order. When they installed the trunks, I was getting -7s on all of them. The installer was totally baffled. The plant records design said the loop should be a -4 but the measurements showed otherwise. What happened was the cable had been changed at some point but the records were never updated to reflect the design change. So the plant engineer put in a request to add repeaters on all the trunks loops and I was able to get the -3.5dB loss that I wanted. Pacific Bell is notorious for have bad plant records...

Depending on the results of whatever tests you have done and you do get Pacific Bell repair involved, you want to schedule a repair meeting with your phone person to be there when PB's tech is there. This will prove the problem one way or the other...

Hope this helps!

....JIM....

 

[cadocs]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for opening up the slippery slope again, but i just had SBC come out and test my lines and the loss was -7.6 which is under their -8 db parameter, which means they won't do anything about it. Now they tested it using a 745, not a 965 and they took the reading from 1000 hz frequency.

Also, I'm actually 17,000 feet from the CO not 1700'!

Once again to explain my problem, when I use my norstar system to do conference calls, the 2 outside calls can not hear each other very well but the 1 inside caller can hear both outside parties just fine. Someone had suggested getting a headset to fix, the problem, but my volume is not the problem, its the 2 people on the outside that can't hear each other.

Please advise.

 

[NARSBARS]

What are the local costs for 2B+1D ISDN? Is the service unlimited?
If you can get the right pricing for components and line usage you can port four of your pots numbers to ISDN and put everything in an outgoing only trunk group.

I have never installed this circuit pack so you should wait for comments from Tek-Tips members before following this advice.

NARSBARS

 

[SYQUEST]

If the cost of assured trunks is too high, you might want to get the cost of T1 with SUPERTRUNK, or ISDN basic and/or PRIMARY, as NARSBARS mentioned above and see if the price fits your budget.

With ISDN of either flavor loop loss due to distance is not an issue. The signal is digital and is not affected the way analog copper transmission is. But T1 and ISDN require a different module in the NORSTAR.

Any of these options would fix the transmission limitations of analogue copper.

If cost is the major issue, see what some of the other providers have to offer and what they would garantee for transmission levels if analogue.

Hope this helps!

....JIM....