Compression in PDF

[Frenky]

Hallo, my first treath in this interesting forum.

We are an mapmaking company and try to make digital maps with scale 1:50.000.(70 cm x 57 cm)
Inputfile is a tiff 800 dpi.
Via InDesign CS template>distiller(Acrobat 6.0)>enfocus instant pdf>outputfile certified <mapname.pdf> file.
For proofing we are using Adobe Acrobat with colormagament>HP5500 plotter.
Some (large) maps can't be printed.(to large in mB, ps?)
Postscr. error or disk full error.
We tried compression for two files in distiller.
A) Bicubic downsampling 400 dpi zip 8 bit
B) " " 600 dpi zip 8 bit
Questions:
Filesize 400 dpi: 58mB
" 600 dpi: 97mB
" 800 dpi: 30mB
Printoffice use ptp workflow 2400 dpi raster 70.
Flatterning for the 3 files are the same
Quality in print 800 dpi: very good
" " " 600 dpi: very bad
" " " 400 dpi: Slightly better than 600 dpi
How come there is so much difference between 800-600 dpi.
How about 400 dpi difference with 600 dpi.
Who has a clue.
Thanx, merry Xmas to you all!

 

[jmgalvin]

The trouble here is that there are about a zillion possible problems/solutions. You did not mention your OS or whether you have the latest updates for Acrobat 6, pitstop, and or the printer software - matching your OS.

You did not mention whether you exported the indesign file to eps or whether you printed a ps file. I assume you did one or the other since your post mentions Distiller. Make sure that the poscript level matches your printer and that you select ALL under Images/Send Data. Any difference in esporting the eps or printing ps could result in the difference in the pdf.

The thing that's wierd is that the 800 dpi pdf is coming smaller than either 400 or 600. That indicates that one or more of your distiller settings was different for this file. There should be no other reason that the 600 would some out so large. You did not mention whether you saved the


First, you might try opening the tiff and resaving WITHOUT lzw compression (or any compression) if it's unknown whether or not lzw was used. lzw can generate ps errors on some postscript printers. Also, flatten the tiff if there are layers - reducing its size.

Since you're using Indesign, try a straight pdf export as a test - bypassing eps or ps and possible goofs there. Make a preset (File menu/pdf export presets/define. Click the New and set up the preset.

On General select the Standard you want. If you select one of the pdf X standards, make sure you go put the proper info into Output intent under PDFX on the Advanced panel later.

Select the downsampling you want and select None under compression.
Since the original is 800 dpi, you can select No downsampling for that resolution.

Under Advanced, select the proper color etc. Make sure that you select the right profile under Output intent if you used a pdf x setting. Select High resolution under Transparency flattening.

Repeat this for the 3 resolutions - leaving all other setting the same. check the results and run a print if possible - not getting the error.

You could also set up a print presets in Indesign for various ps settings and then distill those using different settings in Distiller. In that case, you could experiment by using Adobe pdf as the PPD, rather than the PPD for a particular printer.

Using OSX 10.3.8 on a G4

 

[Frenky]

Thanks jmgalvin for your reply.
Ok, here we go: os=WinXP servicepack 2, latest update Adobe Acrobat(don't no version, I'm not in office now)Not pitstop but Enfocus instant PDF.version ?
Printing via printerserver with driverpack from HP.version ? HP5500 PS lvl3
Inputfile contone tiff 800dpi lzw CMYK channels no layers.
" ps (maplegend with cover)800 dpi
Workflow: ID cs: template>place tiff, place ps-file.
safe as *.id file.
safe as certified PDF>Enfocus does his job.
settings in disitiller: No downsampling, no compression
used by enfocus Standard pdf 1.3
color: Euroscale coated
Tansp.flattrn. High resolution
Result is a good quality PDF of a standard 50.000 map 70cm X 57cmready for print office.
But with larger maps 82cm X 57 cm, resulting PDF looks good in Acrobat, but is impossible to print (disk full on printer)
The solution seems to be to use a compression setting in distiller: zip 8 bit.
But I also used bicubic downsampling to 600 dpi, and that was a mistake I quess.
Because the quality difference between 800dpi and 600 dpi was to big.
First thing I do is to use only the compression.
I will also try your tip about LZW compression.
Thanx again and I keep you informed
(sorry about the english I'm dutch)

 

[Frenky]

Ok, here an update,
Tried to place a tiff without lzw compression, same result.
Pdf was partial printed on HP5500 from Adobe Acrobat, diskfull error + printed error: limitcheck, OFFENDING COMMAND: image
Tiff file was 1.5 Gig. big!
Tried in Distiller compression without downsampling, got a good pdf, filesize was 37mB.(800 dpi)
Filesize without compression 30 mB?(800 dpi)
But the pdf was again not printed.
What is the max. filesize as pdf in mB's or measurements?
Because the file with a resolution of 600 dpi was printed, but the qulity was bad.
Thanx.

 

[jmgalvin]

Again, the problem here could be caused by a whole lot of things. Postscript errors are usually caused by not have everything set up correctly in the printer's postscript setup. All other things can be caused by innumerable glitches.

I'm assuming that you have latest updates to your printer's software/drivers. Hp has a lot of newer updates for the various 5500 disignjets - dependent on the width of your machine. I'm also assuming that you have the latest updates for the Enfocus app.

You did not say if this is happening with ALL pdfs or just one. You might consider creating a new Indesign document of the same size as your present one. Just create a bunch varous colored boxes and export to pdf. Then see how it prints.

Another thing is to try to print directly from Indesign. I'd first open the Tiff in it's creation app, or Photoshop and save a copy with a resolution lower than original. You could make several copies, say at 300dpi, 400, 600 etc. Use those various ones in Indesign and try to print directly from Indesign. The object here is to see it the pdf is offending or if you have some problem with the printer.

Also you did not say if you tried the direct export from indesign as I suggested earlier. This avoids any possible problems with settings in "printing" a poscript file or "exporting" as eps for Distiller. You could try the standard "Press" setting and see how things work.

You can also try preflighting the pdf. In Acrobat - Document menu/Preflight - and see what it says. When you get the preflight window click on List all images and then Analyze and see what it says. If you get the red mark, click the triangle for more info as to the problem. You could also click on List All Problems and Analyze those.

Lastly, when you get the Print Window in Acrobat, have you checked Advanced? Make sure you have the correct printer profile. Chaeck the raster/vector balance and the rasterization resolution under Transpaency flattener. Check that the postscript matched the level of your printer.

I'm sorry to give you so many things to try but, unfortunately, nailing down print problems can be maddening due to the number of possible faults.



Using OSX 10.3.8 on a G4

 

[Frenky]

Again thank you for you'r help.
I've tried all the steps you are mentioned.
To nail the problem down to one thing:
The defauld 50.000 map (70cm x 57cm, 800dpi) as a pdf is good.
It can be printed at our office, and at the printoffice it can be processed in 4 colors (CMYK) at 2400 dpi.
The problem begins whith the larger paperformat 50.000.
That is 82cm x 57cm, I can make the pdf and load it with Adobe Acrobat, the printoffice can proces it but we can,t print it fore our proofing.
The software we are using are updated to the latest version and the HP5500 has the latest firmware.
When I downsample it in Distiller to 600dpi, everything is allright but the image quality of the printed map is very bad.
It has something to do with the resolution (800dpi)and the measurement (82cm X 57 cm) of the specific product.
Is there a maximum filesize or papermeasuremant for pdf?
Or maximum resolution with papermeasurement?
Thanks again!

 

[jmgalvin]

There is no max for paper size in pdf.

One thing occurs to me about size. You say it prints ok at 70 X 57 cm but lousy at 82 X57. What is the Physical size of the original tiff - as shown in Photoshop or other graphics apps. if you're blowing the thing up to fit the larger paper, the image quality is gonna suffer as it would with any raster image.

Another thing to nake sure of is that you don't have any scaling accidentally set for that page size. I had a proof a few months ago that kept coming out goofed up. I finally realized that I had left some scaling on it.

I don't know if you're adding text, in Indesign, to the larger size paper or whether you're just placing the tiff, by itself on the paper. If it's the latter, you could open the thing in photoshop and save as eps and then run that through Distiller to check it, or you could save as pdf from photoshop and check that.

Adobe does recommend a good bit of memory in the postscript printer when printing large files, so that could be a possibility.

You also might try going to the Adobe Acrobat forum -

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@@.ee6b2f2

- and ask there. Sometimes Adobe employees monitor that and give good solutions.



Using OSX 10.3.8 on a G4

 

[Frenky]

We are using 1 template at the size 70 x 57 cm and 1 at 82 x 57 cm.
In both templates are 2 frames, 1 for the tiff and 1 for the legend (is a postscript file).
There is no rescaling or resizing of the tiff.
The tiff's are being placed in the specific frame of the template, the same is being done for the ps legend files.
There is no text added.
The tiff for the 82 x 57 cm is larger than the one of the map 70 x 57 cm, larger topografy surface.
The HP5500 has 512 mB of ram and a harddisk of 20 Gig.
That should be sufficient I quess.
I will take a look at the adobeforums.
Thanks.

 

[Frenky]

Ok, an other question for the same problem:
Is there a max. pixels for processing and printing the PDF?



Using WinXP on Intel Xeon cpu with 2Gig mem
Plotter: HP5500