Color Separation and output quality vs QuarkXPress

[twitchosx]

We use QuarkXPress here and I am getting tired of the poor quality of output due to the use of Bitmaps. I want to figure out how to do some stuff in InDesign and started playing with the demo but I have a question about something.

I have a file that I'm working on in Photoshop, a layered Photoshop file and I have it separated into black and a pantone color in CMYK mode, and I import that layered file directly into InDesign, isnt it possible to print that image separated? Does InDesign pick up the fact that the Photoshop file is basically just black and the pantone color and adjust the spot colors accordingly? I didnt seem to be able to have that work. When I would go to print, my colors were just on CMYK. Here at work, we only have a single head press so we only do 2 color jobs and I need to be able to send the file to our DPM (Digital Plate Maker) in 2 separate plates. Anybody know the best way to do this in InDesign to get the best quality without converting to bitmaps?

Also, IF I were to convert to bitmaps, and import into InDesign, how do I color those in InDesign? Like in Quark, I can click on a image and go to Style>Color> and choose a color. I cant figure out how to do that in InDesign. Thanks for any help.

 

[jimoblak]

First about your concept of bitmaps... Everything you create in Photoshop saves as a bitmap graphic (some with vector components).

To create a spot color separation in Photoshop, the spot color should have it's own unique channel. As you may have experienced, Photoshop does not actually create spot colors in CMYK mode, it creates an approximation of the CMYK values with those 4 channels. You need to create a spot color channel and save the bitmap image as a Photoshop DCS 2.0 EPS file. (save with options: TIF, 8bit / Single file DCS-no composite / Binary) This allows you to place in ID and separate effortlessly.

To change the color of a grayscale image in ID, chose the white arrow (direct selection tool) in your toolbox. Then aply your color to the fill.

- - picklefish - -

 

[twitchosx]

picklefish,

Thanks for the info. I know what most things done in Photoshop are "bitmaps" and very little is actually vector, however, what I was referring to as a "Bitmap" is when you go to Image>Mode and change from RGB or CMYK to Bitmap thus making a black and white image which when imported into Quark can then be colored. From what I can tell, Quark can only color these types of bitmaps for separation. Also, my problem with the Bitmap Mode is when you have something in photoshop like text, and the text is anti-aliased, when you convert that image to a Bitmap mode, the anti-aliasing goes to hell and turns into dots which prints out horribly. I know that dots are a screen but its very annoying and like I said, prints out bad on non Duo Tone printers such as our Black and White Ikon Digital copier or our Digital Plate Maker.

You spoke of a spot color channel. Does this mean that I can create an image in Photoshop, then create this "spot color channel" make that channel any color I want in turn coloring my image that spot color and then save that image as a Photoshop DCS 2.0 file without converting the mode into Bitmap mode? My main concern here is the Bitmap mode. I have never worked with print or anything that was going to print before I worked here. I only did webdesign so I never had to mess with any of this. Converting everything to Bitmap mode is how they taught me to do everything but I am starting to be disgusted with the quality. Like I said, when I create an image in Photoshop, and save as a regular Tiff in CMYK mode without changing to Bitmap mode and bring into either Quark or InDesign, it prints out nicely but then I cant do my color separations. I would like to use InDesign though as even that seemed to have a nicer output quality. Are there any tutorials or any info that you can give me or anything online that I can find to do this spot color channel you are speaking of? Thanks,

TwitchOSX

 

[jimoblak]

oh - okay... It has been a while since I dared to tinker in Quark but Quark should accept and apply spot color to grayscale mode images with no problem. There should be no need to convert to bitmap mode.

It is best to avoid any bitmapped type. You will get jagged edges (low resolution bitmap mode) or halftone auras (grayscale mode). Stick with vector type. If you create text in the later versions of Photoshop and do not rasterize the text layers, you can save your graphic as a PSD file. InDesign will gladly accept PSD files (you need a $200 plugin for Quark to do this). Keeping text in the PSD format will retain its vector crispiness and avoid the jaggies/aura.

2nd paragraph: yes

I'm lost about how you are using 2-ink images. Are these photos or logos? Logos and drawings are best done in a drawing program like Illustrator or Freehand. You have much better control of inks in these programs. Most two-color work done in Photoshop is done with duotones.

The only time you should go to bitmap mode is when you are dealing with one color and your output resolution is 600 dpi or better. Anything less results in disaster.

In your particular situation, there should be no difference in the output quality of Quark and ID. Each program can get you to the same place. One just offers a much better ride.

Tutorials? There's plenty of them out there. The best place to start is adobe.com in the 'expert center'.

- - picklefish - -

 

[twitchosx]

Here is how we have been doing our color separations. And I know its probably wrong or not the best way to do it so any suggestions would be gladly accepted.

If we get some sort of a logo or something from a company that we need to color seperate for print to do a business card, or envelope or stationary or brochure or whatever, I scan it in at 600 dpi and then I break it apart into plates in Photoshop. Suppose the logo is red and black, I would select all the red and copy and paste onto a new layer leaving the previous layer with only the black. Then I would copy the red into a new document, convert Mode to Bitmap and save as Red Plate. Then go back and save the black into a Bitmap mode, and save as Black Plate. Then I go into Quark, insert the black plate and then the red plate and line them up for where they need to sit on top of each other, then on the Red Plate graphic, I go to Style>Color and color it like magenta so that when I send the Quark file back color separated to the DPM to make the plate it will send back a black plate and a red (magenta) plate. Now, even if I do this to our color copier, it works the same, however, like I said previously, when we do anything with the Bitmap Mode in Photoshop, things to go hell. Also, we do a lot of invoice/form reproduction. When a customer brings in a form or invoice or something, we just scan as line art, which scans it into Photoshop as a bitmap image. We then bring that into quark and print. This generally isnt too bad but would it be better to scan these as a black and white document? As far as I can tell, Quark cant apply a spot color to a greyscale image, only bitmap images. Anyway, lets get away from Quark for a second as I would like to focus on InDesign right now.

If I were to create text in Photoshop (and I know you can do this in InDesign) but if I were to create text in Photoshop as part of a design, and I have say black text with a red square behind it on a separate layer, and I want the red square to be pantone whatever, how would I go about importing this file into InDesign? Would I just save the file as a PSD file with the layers intact and drop it into InDesign? Does InDesign allow you to see and edit the layers from a Photoshop document that you import? Should I work in CMYK at all times in Photoshop if I am going to be bringing files from Photoshop into InDesign? I think thats about it for now. Thanks

TwitchOSX

Also,, do you know of any areas that people chat about this stuff? I used to hang out on #webdesign on IRC on Efnet but that got pretty lame.

 

[twitchosx]

Something odd just happened. I saved an image from Photoshop.. a greyscale image as a Phoshop DCS 2.0 file like you specified above and dropped that into Quark and tried to print and it didnt print. Do those Photoshop DCS file types only work a certain way or only work in InDesign? I know im jumping all over.. and I appologize and dont expect anybody to answer all of my questions. I should know more.. but this is how you learn =) Thanks


TwitchOSX

 

[jimoblak]

As far as I can tell, Quark cant apply a spot color to a greyscale image, only bitmap images ...what version of Quark are you using? I see no problem with coloring a grayscale TIF in Q.

You might consider scanning at a higher resolution. At actual size, I usually scan a line art image at 800 dpi as grayscale. Then I do any alterations/clean up. Then I drop it down to 600 dpi when converting to bitmap mode.

Quark actually developed the DCS format, a cousin to EPS. The info I gave for DCS was specific to ID but should have worked for Quark as well.

ID currently considers PSD files as flattened images. This allows you to create soft transitions to a transparent background instead of a hard edge from a clipping path. It also lets keep your hard drive free of flattened copies.

You should also check out the user forums on adobe.com and quark.com - - there is a larger audience there.

- - picklefish - -