cobol? 5

[jwa6]

Hi everyone.

Im 51 and doing nothing in this job to further my career.

I have 10 years experience in oracle and crystal reports.
Due to the diverse nature of what I do I am now ( the master of none). Im at a dead end here.

I have taken a java class to see whats up w/ that technonlgy. Frankly Im thinking that at my age and w/ family I dont want to spend the next 3 years taking night classes again.

I have seen an artical recently about cobol people being in demand due to the retirement of many who grew up w/ cobol so to speak. It seems many up and coming have no interest in the older technologies.

I have a few years of rpg . I have also taken 2 cobol classes a few years back for a degree in IT.

I dont feel the urge to compete w/ the up and coming who have a few years headstart. Ill be 55 and looking for a java
job?
right.

I was thinking about looking for cobol work. Its all the same to me ( technology)
Im looking for stablilty these days as kids college is getting to be an issue.


just some reamblings here.

Is the artical correct? Is there and will there be a demand for cobol people.

 

[timw]

Well, apparently there's a huge amount of COBOL out there. Someone has to maintain / leverage it. Most programmers entering the market may prefer the sexier technologies (COBOL ain't sexy) leaving a widening skills shortage in this area.

Have you scanned the job sites? How many COBOL jobs are on offer? Compared to Java? VB.NET? C#? etc

Tim

 

[jwa6]

Hi Tim

Im in madison wi.
Frankly I havent seen any cobol ads here. Its all java or .NET.

thats why I thought I would post out here to se what others have been seeing.
If the demand is large( dont care about sexy - care about health ins. and no layoffs) many hay have quit posting jobs just due to lack of interest?

Hmmmm... manpower is in mke. Ill check out the website they have soon.

thanks for the reply!

jwa6

 

[trollacious]

jwa6, I'm in Madison now, too, and the company I'm at will be looking for a software tech support person in th near future. A strong tech support background is NOT required, but someone who can think from different angles is a necessity.

I've had few results with the local tech employment agencies, so I can't recommend any of those.

What salary range are you looking for?

Lee

 

[Glenn9999]

If the demand is large( dont care about sexy - care about health ins. and no layoffs) many hay have quit posting jobs just due to lack of interest?

For what I know, most jobs involving COBOL have been offshored. Not a huge demand out there for practitioners.

 

[harebrain]

I have seen an artical recently about cobol people being in demand due to the retirement of many who grew up w/ cobol...

This is a myth propagated by the same hacks who brought you doom in Y2K.

COBOL was just right for off-shoring: remember, those systems were written when documentation throughout the life-cycle was mandatory.

I'm in the sixth largest market in the US and I haven't seen a single requirement for COBOL in 2.5 years. Adapt or die. (And I'm older than you.)

 

[jwa6]

so far..I havent been seeing much either(cobol). But I havent been looking. It was an interesting premise I thought.
After the java class however, I really did see that my skills are out of the current market trend. Looking at the path to get marketable again - I see 2 years full time at the loca ( and very good ) tech college.

Too many payments due for that...then your mid 50s and competeing w/ kids who can work 60 hours a week.

what to do what to do

thanks all for the input!

 

[jwa6]

hi troll

Im not anything if not distracted by looking at too many angles


salary range is mid 40s min...for tech support at the city of here thats what they start entry level at

 

[jmd0252]

Boy does this hit home. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing so many are in the boat with me. I am 55, been in the JDE World system for 6 years, RPG, and originally wrote COBOL in 78, on some IBM 4300's. Even remember the IBM 360 and System 3. Retirement is right around the corner, and I guess that is the scarry point. But I have chosen to adapt. My company is leaving the AS400, and going to SQL. We are using the VMWare product. All new stuff, MY point,, while it would seem adapt or die. We more experienced workers, should have knowledge on our side. We should be able to solve "business problems", by applying technology. If the code is RPG, COBOL, .Net, who cares. There are still business problems to solve, and that is what we should be good at. Thoughts from everyone????

 

[bwtc]

I have a few years of rpg

Are you currently working on an AS/400 ? How long ago have you worked with RPG, and what version?

I am seeing less & less COBOL applications, but am running into more & more RPG-IV programmers over the past several years -- especially at conferences -- some of whom were hired at firms as Java programmers, who were taught RPG-IV, and opted to run with that instead of Java.

RPG was supposed to have "died" many years ago, but it is still thriving, now with native PHP, XML, and Java support... it wouldn't hurt to brush up on those skills a little bit -- especially if your next job involves a mixture of Cobol & RPG.

 

[jwa6]

RPG

now thats interesting

its been 9 years since I have touched rpg. I took 3 rpg classes in the mid 90s. Then a few cobol classes as well.

Back in the 90s the AS400 MARKET here was very sparse. I went to work by chicage and traveled back and foourth each week ( bad for family)

Ill keep the eyes peeled however
thanks for the input!

 

[Glenn9999]

We should be able to solve "business problems", by applying technology. If the code is RPG, COBOL, .Net, who cares. There are still business problems to solve, and that is what we should be good at. Thoughts from everyone????

No matter the language, you still got to have the skills to be able to take a problem and draw out the logic to do it successfully with a minimum of coding errors. Unfortunately, business doesn't see it that way. If you have COBOL experience (another big thing, taking a class or learning it on your own doesn't cut it for HR in my experience, they want on-the-job experience), you are completely useless to business who wants .NET. Of course, the folly in all this is that most business just look for whatever the fad language is of the time. Java before, .NET now, next it will be something else.

You can't retrain, you can't take a class, you're just redundant ("Hello may I take your order please?" "Do you want fries with that?") if you don't already have the skills employers want. I know I regret ever doing IT.

 

[monkeylizard]

I think what jmd was hinting at are "soft skills." Dead language programmers still presumably have these, but can be bad at realizing it or marketing them.

We often define ourselves as programmers by the languages we know and don't look beyond I.T. Think about the industries that you know and leverage those skills. Did you do COBOL in a[Insert industry here] firm? Then find a [Insert industry here] firm looking for a team leader position. Let the younger guys do most of the coding. You understand the real processes of the business like they won't for another 10 years+.

Most of our business knowledge becomes so ingrained in our daily work that we forget that many people don't have any idea what terms like WIP and RPM mean, much less how they're supposed to work.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.

 

[gbaughma]

And yet, AS400's are used in a LOT of banks.

You might want to contact Jack Henry.



Just my 2¢
-ARRGH! All my clothes are wrinkled! Oh, the irony!

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[harebrain]

The problem with banks is that they're cheap b@st@rds that always hire people with a bare minimum of experience at a low pay level. There's a reason people don't work at banks for more than a year or two: with three years experience under their belt, they can get more than a bank is willing to pay. Also, when it comes to age discrimination, banks have appeared to be the worst for decades. The only old bank employee you'll ever see is the security guard, and they only have them in the movies. And they're always the first ones to die for the bank. :-(

Hey, I think I can actually hear my FICO score plummeting...

 

[gbaughma]

Wow.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with banks.

I have had exactly the opposite experience.

The bank I consult for pays me well; they have *insisted* on giving me rate increases every year, when they do their employee reviews; and I'm not an employee, I'm a consultant!

The bank president is in his 70's. The loan officers are in their late 50's, early 60's. I think my wife is the youngest employee there at 31.

They pay a guy to come in and consult on their AS/400. He's an RPG programmer, and knows the 400 inside and out. They pay him QUITE well.

Jack Henry is a company that makes banking software; they're huge, and are on the AS/400 platform running RPG. Someone with RPG and AS/400 experience should be able to just about write their own ticket with them.



Just my 2¢
-ARRGH! All my clothes are wrinkled! Oh, the irony!

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[jwa6]

Im going to watch the cobol jobs out there thru monstor, yahoo etc.

I just cant see taking 3 years of nigght school and looking for an entry job.

Too many hot younguns out there who are willing to work 60 hours a week.

There just may be a wave coming.....

 

[SQLSister]

Have you considered becoming a systems or business analyst?

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[jwa6]

now thats an idea

if its back to school - why not look at something that is a little less likely to be outsourced or less likely to face age disrimination.

Ill look into that
thanks sqls!

 

[kHz]

Too many hot younguns out there who are willing to work 60 hours a week.

I don't know what you consider young, but I am 40 and have been in IT for over 12 years and have put in my share overtime, but have no desire for that anymore. I contract and one of the best perks is 40 hours/week and out. I have more of a life than working 100 hour weeks that I have done in the past.

I have no desire for management and those in their 20's and 30's can work the hours if they want. They can have the ladder to the top. I am an expert in my field and keep up in that specialty, but have no burning desire to learn every new thing that crops up. The younguns can have that.