Cisco VoIP pros vs. cons

[TechCUTelecom]

Hello all Cisco users,

I come from a Nortel PBX-Hybrid shop and wonder if you can give me some advises and some of the pros vs. cons if I decide to go with Cisco VoIP system.

We will have a small remote office and we are thinking to deloy Cisco VoIP phones system with its own PRI circuit, voicemail system, etc... This system will be stand alone and will not network to our current PBX.
We can also do Nortel VoIP and network with our current system but my network guy asks why we don't go with Cisco VoIP since we use all Cisco routers and switches.

I welcome all your comments, suggestions and some of the pros vs. cons if we go with Cisco VoIP. The cost also a factor in making the decision. Thanks for your help and you have a great day.

 

[BuckWeet]

Going on the way side I would ask this.. Is there anything wrong with the nortel set up?

While the Cisco solution works. If the nortel is what everyone is used to why change it as you're bringing additional complications as you would have to retrain folks..


BuckWeet

 

[MassDeployer]

I agree with BuckWeet...
We've been using Avaya PBXs for the last 15 years and it been great.

A few years ago our Communications dept was taken over by the IT dept. The CTO here insisted on moving over to Cisco VOIP. Needless to say, 3 years and a million dollars later the rollout has been put on hold and we've been having to work twice as hard and often just to maintain the lttle Cisco phones we did deploy. Not to mention the all the hicupps, bugs and freakish troubles.

In all my fifteen years of working with AT&T/Avaya system have I ever had so much trouble or work with a phone system.

If your bussiness depends on telephone uptime I'd stay away from it at least until Cisco has mastered telephony.

The end user aren't to crazy about it either.


Kind Regards,

MassDeployer

 

[whykap]

Here is my 2 cents on this one:
The CISCO solution does work.
Two main reasons that it does not:
Bad design or bad deployment. Either one of these two will make ANY manufacturer's product not work.

So if you will deploy CISCO IPTEL make sure you get someone in there that knows what they are doing. By someone I mean a CISCO VAR that does that for a living. Do not rely on internal network engineers or a telecom tech that knows how to install a PBX.

You would not rely nor expect on a switching/routing person to install a nortel pbx or an AVAYA tech to install your cisco network. You would hire the right person to do either one of those.

Most issues with the CISCO product come from people that think they can install in but fall on their faces when they cannot because they do not have the epxertise or experience to do it. Then they blame the manufacturer.

Saying that CISCO IP TEL does not work and you should wait is nonsense to say the least. CISCO has outsold everyone else in phones worldwide the past few years. That includes TDM and IP.

I am not saying that CISCO works better than AVAYA or nortel or anybody else. All I am saying is that it works as well. The procuct you choose depends on feature needs and also price.

Anything else is simply vendor bashing. This forum is for knowledge base and that is what we all try to provide.

So techCUTtelecom, unless your corporation is willing to install this correctly using people that know how it works and the complications of it my advice is to deploy another Norstar on your new site.

I know this will raise a lot of backlash but it is my opinion.

 

[MassDeployer]

I agree with whykap too...

It all depends who you are, what you currently have, what you want, where you're going and how much you are willing to spend.

Kind Regards,

MassDeployer

 

[yeahbutno]

Not being funny but stick to what you know,you then understand exactly what you get.

whycap
"CISCO has outsold everyone else in phones worldwide the past few years. That includes TDM and IP."

That quote is not relevant as everybody knows the most popular product is not usually the BEST product!

Im with Buckweet on this one, why add extra training and incopatibilities in the equation when you know your system has been designed and tested to work together? The grass is usually NOT greener on the other side!Although it does seem sometimes!

 

[SparkyDTMF]

I just lived through this - my employer just jumped from Avaya to Cisco. We made the jump for the following reasons:

a) we were, are, and always will be a data-centric environment first. No one complains much if their voice mail doesn't work, but all holy heck will ensue if their email stops working.

b) Cisco made it incredibly attractive to migrate over to their solution because, in addition to upgrading 7+ year old TDM technology for our voice, we also upgraded 3-5+ year old data switches with PoE and Gb switches.

c) Avaya couldn't get out of their own way during the RFP process. I have worked on and with Avaya for 8+ years - their gear works wonderfully. However, their management, partnership model, and sales practices left us with pretty sour impressions.

d) For about the same spend rate on a lease, we got a completely brand new IP tel platform (complete with call center, conferencing and enhanced 911 capability), new data switches, and a unified messaging platform with Microsoft. Avaya's quote, which didn't include PoE switches or a unified messaging platform, was about the same.

We migrated over to Cisco's new 5.0 CallManager solution. We did so because of SIP compatibility with 5.0. Like any first generation platorm, it does have some "features" we don't care for. Not only are we experiencing a huge learning curve with this platform, but our VAR and Cisco are as well.

We still would make the same decision over again - quite frankly, in a few years, I see the enterprise VoIP race being narrowed down to two horses: Cisco and Microsoft.

 

[jamming1]

I got a couple of penny's here!

Cisco works, Avaya works and Nortel works. It doesn't matter which one of these you install because you'll have issues with VoIP if you don't get the right people involved from the begining.

If your trying to install Cisco or any other vendor just for VoIP phones then your wasting your money, resources and time. It's still dial tone and it sounds the same as it did yesterday on eveyones phone. Install VoIP sets where it makes since like new sites, remote offices and virtual call center agent. Not on the desk a couple floors above the switch room that has been cabled for years.

The real value is intergration with applications ie Unified Communications. It's no longer all about VoIP. VoIP has just become a transport just like a copper trunk or a PRI/T1. It doesn't take a VoIP phone to have unifed comminications but Cisco can't sell you anything else. So of course Cisco is going to tell you VoIP is the only way to go.

Don't listen to the who has sold more phones stories. Eveyone has the same story, it's all paid for market BS.

 

[Telepete]

I agree with MassDeployer, I come from a Nortel Voice back ground & have been working with ICM & Call Manager for about 18 months & it's been nothing but grief. As for configuring it correctly that's fine if you're a voice techy that's also a CCNP or higher + MSCE + DBA thorwn in for good measure. Even then there are still a few quirks that can't be resolved unless your a Cisco developer. So in summary it's a great system & everyone should have. (NOT)

 

[VoIPpro]

Mass and Buck!
I bet you'd agree that what you are saying now was said when things were changed 15 years ago to PBX!
Change is good! It opens new windows of opportunity and it means progress. I for one don't want to stand still in today’s technology. I think it should move on so we can implement streaming video and more!
Most CISCO phones have already the capability to do much more that the old PBX based phones.
So let's be realistic and embrace the new stuff. The more you fight it, the harder it will get for you to adapt.

 

[MassDeployer]

I agree that VoIP is the way things need to go...

Consolidating communication resources provides an opportunity to leverage a single, common broadband resource and employ the Internet and company Intranets for cost-effective voice, fax and data transmissions.

We just have to embrace the changes and deal with the growing pains...


Kind Regards,

MassDeployer

 

[jamming1]

I don't think anyone here is saying change isn't good and yes there are things on an IP phone that you can't do on a TDM phone (web apps and video apps). Do you have to go to CISCO to do that? NO. Do you have to change your legacy PBX to go legacy VoIP? NO.

I don't know about you but I don't need a $400+ phone on my desk so I can video conference or watch TV through it. I can do that with my PC with a much better screen. If I wanted to watch videos through my phone I would use my cell phone. The screen is just as good (VCAST anyone). We've had video conferencing on our PC's for about 3 years now. I can tell I have used it 2 times and my co workers have used it maybe just as much as I have or less.

What is realistic is that people use the phone to make phone calls. I don't need CISCO to do that. I can do that and video with AVAYA, NORTEL, MITEL, SEMENS, SHORETEL and free stuff like ASTERISK.

 

[Kfed89]

I've done alot of VOIP and some PBX. They both have their pro's and con's. If you are putting in a new site go VOIP. It takes up less space in the server room and requires 1/2 the internal cabling a PBX would.

If you're up and running on a PBX I wouldn't move over yet. Cisco has to many bugs to work out. I support a HUGE call center and Cisco just doesn't have a good solution for it yet.

Cisco is a bit harder to trouble-shoot though because you fall into server and switch experts rather than just a PBX with cross connects.

 

[BuckWeet]

VoIPpro.. you missed the point..

Technology is good yes.. change is good yes (sometimes).. just as jamming said.. You don't have to go cisco to do voip, you could update your nortel system to do voip. What I was sayin was based merely on a business case perspective.. the simplest change in a business can cause severe impact in cases of lost productivity, lost revenue, support issues, etc..

Thats all I'm saying.. don't go changing your infrastructure just because its a cool thing to do. If the nortel doesn't meet your requirements then change.. If it does then why go through the headache of change?


BuckWeet

 

[dheida]

I wasn't here in 2002-2003 when my company went from PBX to Cisco VOIP at every single location but I am told it was a huge headache. It was the first Cisco install the vendor had done and they weren't ready. I'd agree with the previous statements of getting someone that knows their stuff. We have since gone to a different, much more experienced, company for any major upgrades. Four years later I don't think anybody in this company would argue that it wasn't worth it. I have no Cisco certs and had zero Cisco experience when I started my job and in the last two years I have a solid (at least I think do) understanding of CallManager and Unity.

 

[Stagemusic]

We are in the process of adding the Cisco solution to a number of our smaller offices. Since our shop (Network) uses Cisco Routers and Switches with POe it was an easy migration for our offices with fewer than 15 people. We definitely have no intention of replacing our Nortel CS1000's in our larger office as they have proven to be reliable and cost effective. Also, the integration that Nortel is doing with Microsoft, plus the key enhancements on the new Nortel CS1000 release 5.0, keeps the Nortel platform out in front of the Cisco for larger platforms. With the conversion this summer of 2 offices we will be fully IP with 27 US offices and 14 offices overseas connected to our network.

My simple advice is to look at what you are trying to accomplish with your communication network and compare cost, features, ease of troubleshooting, and most importantly the quality of the vendor in each case. If you have a good PBX vendor and a not so hot Cisco vendor the change to Cisco will be extremely painful...trust me on this.

 

[ArchTelecom]

I have a Cisco IP set and a Nortel set sitting next to each other on my desk. The Cisco is OK and that's all I can say for it. When I need to make sure everyone understands me on the call, I pick the old fashioned TDM set. It is crystal clear. The Cisco phone is on/off. Sometimes the quality is acceptable, sometimes I sound like I'm on a Nextel phone. It's NEVER as good as the TDM set.
If you need features, the Cisco can't cut the mustard. If you need plain Jane (no offense to anyone named Jane) PBX features and voice quality isn't that important, then the Cisco is fine, if you were installing brand new.

Back to the original post though...It sounds like the most cost effective solution, will be to stay with your Nortel and use it's VOIP features.

 

[jneiberger]

Here is my advice: if you already have Nortel equipment, go with Nortel VoIP. Do not introduce another vendor unless you really need to do so. I have learned this lesson the hard way.

 

[LeEss13]

2 1/2 years ago, we moved to a new facility. We went from a Nortel M1 shop to a Cisco, Unity, IPCC Enterprise one. Everything Kfed89 said is right on the money. The phones are pretty solid but not feature rich. The installation is neat. Unity Voice Mail is mediocre at best, and IPCC is a nightmare for a Call Center solution. My $.02

 

[whykap]

What features are you looking for that the CISCO phones cannot do?

Just wandering as this seems to be an issue here.