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Cisco 6509 vs Nortel 8610
- Thread starter m1227
- Start date
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- #3
As a technical standpoint and working with both Cisco and Nortels support; if the Cisco was $100,000 more than the Nortel I'd still go with the Cisco. Thats unless you like to drink Alcohol heavily......
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The above answer should pass to Nortel marketing and service support team. ^^
Thanks for your comment, dagnaget.
M1227
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The above answer should pass to Nortel marketing and service support team. ^^
Thanks for your comment, dagnaget.
M1227
djpeterson
IS-IT--Management
I have been running Nortel 8610's 8606's and 8603's for 5 years and I have never had one fail. Thats running in the core and on Optically connected metro fiber rings with 6000 pc's online. The only problems I have ever had were configuration issues (self inflicted)
I have quotes from Gartner, Verizon, McKesson, and Fuji, that this is fastest and most reliable network they have ever deployed gear in or evaluated.
I have quotes from Gartner, Verizon, McKesson, and Fuji, that this is fastest and most reliable network they have ever deployed gear in or evaluated.
- Thread starter
- #5
JeroeNortel
Technical User
Hi m1227,
Although my experience with the 6509 is less than 1 year, I agree with djpeterson. We've been running 8000's for almost 5 years now and never experienced a chassis failure. Until now we've had 3 module failures, about 10 port failures, 5 powersupply failures (all due local blackouts) and a single fan failure. In comparison to the +100 chassis and almost 18000 ports we are running in our network, the amount of hardware failures is negligible.
Just the way I've been experiencing the Nortel 8000 equipment.
Regards,
JeroeNortel
Although my experience with the 6509 is less than 1 year, I agree with djpeterson. We've been running 8000's for almost 5 years now and never experienced a chassis failure. Until now we've had 3 module failures, about 10 port failures, 5 powersupply failures (all due local blackouts) and a single fan failure. In comparison to the +100 chassis and almost 18000 ports we are running in our network, the amount of hardware failures is negligible.
Just the way I've been experiencing the Nortel 8000 equipment.
Regards,
JeroeNortel
netmanrick
Technical User
If it ain't Nortel,I do not buy it. Crisco is continuously mentioned in SANS about security holes.
I worked on Nortel when it was Wellfleet and used floppies.Still good stuff.
Crico equipment is well designed-good stuff.The software is lacking-security holes.
Granted,Nortel does have some support problems,but we have multiple 8600 chassis,ARN routers,350-450-470 switches.
That's my $.02
Rick Harris
SC Dept of Motor Vehicles
Network Operations
I worked on Nortel when it was Wellfleet and used floppies.Still good stuff.
Crico equipment is well designed-good stuff.The software is lacking-security holes.
Granted,Nortel does have some support problems,but we have multiple 8600 chassis,ARN routers,350-450-470 switches.
That's my $.02
Rick Harris
SC Dept of Motor Vehicles
Network Operations
- Thread starter
- #8
Do you like to drive a Chevy or a Ford?
That being said, both are good products. Both will do what you want/need them to do.
I'll vote for Nortel's products, as they seem more intuitive to me from a configuration/operation perspective. I've been working with them since the Synoptics/Wellfleet/Bay Networks days. From a reliability standpoint, as a rule my experience has been that Nortel data products don't generally die - they're murdered by leaky pipes, power surges, etc.
Also, you don't see as much "end of life" announcements in the Nortel world as with Cisco. For example, the ARN/ASN routers have been around for years (6 or 7 at least, if I'm not mistaken). They are still developing code for them. How many Cisco models have come and gone in that timeframe?
Just my opinion.
That being said, both are good products. Both will do what you want/need them to do.
I'll vote for Nortel's products, as they seem more intuitive to me from a configuration/operation perspective. I've been working with them since the Synoptics/Wellfleet/Bay Networks days. From a reliability standpoint, as a rule my experience has been that Nortel data products don't generally die - they're murdered by leaky pipes, power surges, etc.
Also, you don't see as much "end of life" announcements in the Nortel world as with Cisco. For example, the ARN/ASN routers have been around for years (6 or 7 at least, if I'm not mistaken). They are still developing code for them. How many Cisco models have come and gone in that timeframe?
Just my opinion.
anthonyanderberg
MIS
(Parts of this are from a previous post I made to a similar question last year.)
A couple years ago I evaluated a Cisco 6500, a Black Diamond 6800, a Nortel 8600, an Allied Telesyn SwitchBlade 4000, an HP ProCurve 9300, and a Foundry FastIron 400 side by side.
A little background: Once upon a time we used IBM ATM equipment in our core and migrated to Nortel's 8600 platforms when they first came out. We've been very happy with them but when the 3 year leases started to expire I wanted to make sure we knew what our options were.
Here are a few (random) thoughts:
First we chose Nortel again, partially because of aggressive pricing offered and partially to avoid retraining staff. Good experiences with stability, the local support team, and features like SMLT also helped. I didn't have any experience with the other platforms, except for a familiarity with Cisco's ISO because our WAN routers are Cisco models.
We are a 24x7 operation so uptime is critical but we don't do anything too exotic, most all of the platforms passed all of my tests. In general I ignored the vendor-supplied performance numbers since they all use Enron-style math when reporting speeds and performance.
I thought the BlackDiamond had the best interface in terms of usability, even better than our Passport 8600 for a new user. On the flip side I thought the Catalyst 6500 had the worst interface for a new user, I just don't think an interface designed for a 4 port router works on a 300 port core switch. I also was annoyed that because the 6500 has both the CatOS and IOS operating systems and since they have different features available for each it seemed like (at the time) we could either have a common IOS interface with a reduced feature set or a better feature set with a proprietary interface.
I did like the wide variety of options for the 6500, the NAM blade and netFlow features were quite cool. Nortel says they'll support IPFix in 4.1 but it seems that they're loading an awful lot onto the plate for that release...
I haven't opened very many trouble tickets but I'd classify my luck with Nortel support as 'good but somewhat mixed'. As with a lot of support situations it seems like getting the right person can make all the difference... I've called Cisco a few times for router issues and had mixed results there as well. Once upon a time I worked on a model of DEC router and had a really complicated configuration, I called for support quite a bit and when I did the first thing I'd say was: "it'd save a lot of time if you just transferred me to Dave right now." They usually did and Dave always came through for me... he probably doesn't know it but I've toasted him many times over the years.
A couple years ago I evaluated a Cisco 6500, a Black Diamond 6800, a Nortel 8600, an Allied Telesyn SwitchBlade 4000, an HP ProCurve 9300, and a Foundry FastIron 400 side by side.
A little background: Once upon a time we used IBM ATM equipment in our core and migrated to Nortel's 8600 platforms when they first came out. We've been very happy with them but when the 3 year leases started to expire I wanted to make sure we knew what our options were.
Here are a few (random) thoughts:
First we chose Nortel again, partially because of aggressive pricing offered and partially to avoid retraining staff. Good experiences with stability, the local support team, and features like SMLT also helped. I didn't have any experience with the other platforms, except for a familiarity with Cisco's ISO because our WAN routers are Cisco models.
We are a 24x7 operation so uptime is critical but we don't do anything too exotic, most all of the platforms passed all of my tests. In general I ignored the vendor-supplied performance numbers since they all use Enron-style math when reporting speeds and performance.
I thought the BlackDiamond had the best interface in terms of usability, even better than our Passport 8600 for a new user. On the flip side I thought the Catalyst 6500 had the worst interface for a new user, I just don't think an interface designed for a 4 port router works on a 300 port core switch. I also was annoyed that because the 6500 has both the CatOS and IOS operating systems and since they have different features available for each it seemed like (at the time) we could either have a common IOS interface with a reduced feature set or a better feature set with a proprietary interface.
I did like the wide variety of options for the 6500, the NAM blade and netFlow features were quite cool. Nortel says they'll support IPFix in 4.1 but it seems that they're loading an awful lot onto the plate for that release...
I haven't opened very many trouble tickets but I'd classify my luck with Nortel support as 'good but somewhat mixed'. As with a lot of support situations it seems like getting the right person can make all the difference... I've called Cisco a few times for router issues and had mixed results there as well. Once upon a time I worked on a model of DEC router and had a really complicated configuration, I called for support quite a bit and when I did the first thing I'd say was: "it'd save a lot of time if you just transferred me to Dave right now." They usually did and Dave always came through for me... he probably doesn't know it but I've toasted him many times over the years.
- Thread starter
- #11
At work I configure/support Cisco switches (6509's, 76xx's)and Nortel devices (74xx, 15xxx, Shasta BSN-5000). I think each vendor has it's own benefit, but when it comes down to absolute ease of use, and ability to find information on how to troubleshoot/configure, I believe Cisco is the answer.
Cisco does have it's recent security flaws, but if your network is built correctly this should not be that big of an issue to you. I know for a fact that when I want to configure something on any Nortel gear, finding any information on the Internet is near impossible compared to many Cisco-related technical forums that exist. There seems to be a much greater level of support for Cisco (which is why everyone knows how to hack their gear.... more people looking at it).
My company has also used Nortel telephony switches, and they are so wrapped in Nortel that they will never get out. Their Shasta product line continuously fails. Try to get Nortel tech support together to work on a problem too, it will take you months until they get it escalated properly and 9 times out of 10, Nortel is trying to blame the user due to a software version not being correct. Then you wait a few days, call back on the same support issue, and now it takes months again for Nortel support to re-organize themselves to assist you. Go visit Nortel's campus in Reliegh NC if you don't believe me. It's a campus of huge empty buildings which are anothe attribute to their failure in the industry.
This is just my opinion based on the gear I have worked with . Maybe their 8000 series devices are better (I hope so for the sake of troubleshooting). Maybe you'll have better experiences than I've had.
-Rainman
Cisco does have it's recent security flaws, but if your network is built correctly this should not be that big of an issue to you. I know for a fact that when I want to configure something on any Nortel gear, finding any information on the Internet is near impossible compared to many Cisco-related technical forums that exist. There seems to be a much greater level of support for Cisco (which is why everyone knows how to hack their gear.... more people looking at it).
My company has also used Nortel telephony switches, and they are so wrapped in Nortel that they will never get out. Their Shasta product line continuously fails. Try to get Nortel tech support together to work on a problem too, it will take you months until they get it escalated properly and 9 times out of 10, Nortel is trying to blame the user due to a software version not being correct. Then you wait a few days, call back on the same support issue, and now it takes months again for Nortel support to re-organize themselves to assist you. Go visit Nortel's campus in Reliegh NC if you don't believe me. It's a campus of huge empty buildings which are anothe attribute to their failure in the industry.
This is just my opinion based on the gear I have worked with . Maybe their 8000 series devices are better (I hope so for the sake of troubleshooting). Maybe you'll have better experiences than I've had.
-Rainman
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