Cisco 2600 routers, what's the difference? 3

[wiimike]

I am looking to purchase a way to learn the intricacies of routing, even if it's on a bit of old technology. I basically want something configurable to learn with, both for my college education and my CCNA exam practice.

I was thinking of going with a used 2600 series router off ebay. The problem I run into with this is the confusion of which model to purchase. Is there somewhere I can go to find a consolidated comparison of them? (or perhaps someone could be so kind as to give a quick rundown).

Do you think I'd just be better off going with some sim software? Which one would you recommend? I'd like to be as true to life as possible. I could see sim software being possibly a better choice as I'd get to presumably config newer technology, and have multiple devices.

Thanks in advance for any help you're willing to give.

 

[Minue]

Hello
Leave the SIM's alone!It nothing like the real thing!!The 2620 or 2621 would be the better choice with it's VLAN trunking support.The 2610 is the cheapest,but if you can find one with 16MB flash and 48MB dram it will give you VLAN trunkingsupport as well.I personally prefer the 1721 which isn't noisy like the 2600 series.
Regards

 

[chipk]

I always prefer actual devices over simulators, especially if you are a tactile (or even visual) learner. Having the hardware is better in my opinion. However, if you're only going to have one router, that obviously isn't going to let you experiement a lot with routing protocols, and physical ocnnectivity, so a combination is of physical devices and sims may be the best.

As far as the platform, the big difference is going to be how many devices you can connect together. If you get a low-end 2611, you may only have two ethernet ports, and limited expansion slots. Think about the environment you want to create: How many routers? How many switches? What are your cost constraints? Here are the different 2600 platforms and their basic hardware configurations:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps259/index.html

If the environment you want to experiment with is out of your price range, then that's obviously not going to lean your toward the simulators. Also keep in mind that something you buy off e-bay may not have an updated IOS version, and if you have to update that (legally), that would also cost you some $$$.

On a related note, have you been to the CCNA prep center on Cisco's web site?

http://forums.cisco.com/eforum/servlet/PrepCenter?page=main

 

[wiimike]

thanks for the help thus far. Yeah it seems a setup I'd need would be out of my price range.

About the CCNA prep center, I'll have to check it out when I get home, looks like a great idea though.

Any recommendations on sim software?

 

[burtsbees]

Boson Netsim is the best, in my opinion...

You can get a few 2600's pretty cheap off Ebay, but I do agree---it gets pricey. Most on Ebay come with IP Base code only, so one of the main things to consider is IOS that comes on them, if you go the Ebay route. Do some research on Cisco's website concerning IOS's.

Burt

 

[MDW19873]

I would definetly stay away from Simulators. I've used tons of them. While Boson Netsim is probably the best, they are still just junk. They are not bad for practice when you have a few minutes at work, but you really cannot do any advanced or even intermediate configs on them.

For selecting and setting up a home lab, I'd say have a read through these:
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http://www.thebryantadvantage.com/HOME LAB Building One.htm

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http://www.thebryantadvantage.com/CCNACCNPHomeLabSuggestions.htm

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http://www.thebryantadvantage.com/HOME LAB Suggested Topologies.htm

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http://www.thebryantadvantage.com/CCNACCNPHomeLabBuyingOnEbay.htm

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http://www.thebryantadvantage.com/CCNACCNPHomeLabSetupFAQ.htm

Those should give you a pretty good idea for what you need. You don't have to break your bank building a lab. Chris Bryant knows his stuff.

In my own home lab I have a Cisco 4700M which I use as a frame-relay switch, 2 2501s, 2 2503s, and a 2504. I also have a spare 4500. You'll hear a lot of people say that 2500s are old and outdated, as far as the hardware goes, yes. However, most of the exam is knowing how to CONFIGURE the router and its technologuies. While the 2500s are a tab bit slow, they can get the job done and do about 95% of the things you'll need. The other 5% you can do with online racks, or maybe even a simulator. Thats what I've done to obtain my CCNA and I'ved used them in my CCNP studies. They have yet to fail me.

As far as switches goes, it comes down to understanding VLANs, VTP, Spanning Tree, and some Inter-VLAN routing. You can do most of these on a simulator.

I have yet to buy any switches for my lab as I have a pretty good understanding of them, as I use to use them extensively in a lab to use to work in. However, in the future, some 2950s would be nice and maybe a 2621 so you can do the Inter-VLAN routing.

Good luck!

A+, i-Net+

 

[burtsbees]

Dude

You can do EVERYTHING required for passing the CCNA with Boson, although I do favor the real thing. I got my CCNA over a year ago, and I took the 640-801, as opposed to the 811 and 821 route. Most of the exam concentrated on VLAN and VTP configs! That means a couple of 2950's (three if you want to see STP elections go down) and a 2600 series for intervlan routing. For ROUTING protocols, the 2500's are still very good and very good to the wallet as well, but as I said, most of the CCNA was VLAN and switching configs, which the 2500's cannot do, especially without switches.
By the way, I also obtained my CCNP 4 months ago, before I had any routers or switches. All Boson. Now I have a 2620XM with adventerprise IOS, fully loaded, two 2924's (no VTP client-server configs---just VLAN configs), a 2503 configured as a frame switch, and connected to it are 2 more 2620's, regular ones with advsecurity IOS's, fully loaded. I also have an 837 as my dsl router. This I plan to expand, with VoIP stuff, but for now it is helping with security configs, as I am studying for CCIE security.

Burt
A+, Net+, CCNA, CCNP

 

[MDW19873]

As you said, it will do what is REQUIRED, but thats about it. My students ran into all sorts of issues and bugs with Netsim.

Netsim will help you get the BASIC skills required to pass the CCNA, but you need to actually understand what is going on. I know most people just want to pass the exam, but when you can't preform what your certification says you can, what does that say?

The Netsim gives you a basic understanding of the commands, which is about all you need for the exam itself, but you can't put any real scenarios to it. Basically, you can get a lot of theory, but no practical application. That practical application is what will matter. If you can't actually preform this things in the field, the certification is just paper.

Actual experience with the equipment is very important. You have to learn the components, the hardware, and etc. Its also nice to have a REAL IOS output compared to the simulated output you see in the Netsim. The Netsim also hits many many bugs, not to mention its missing important show commands and debugs.

All-in-all, yeah, you can use simulators and pass, but you'll have a lot better understanding of the equipment and technologies if you use the real thing. You're not going to find a simulator in a real environment, so why use a simulator when you can get the real things on a small budget? Remember that.

Thats my take on the simulators

A+, i-Net+, Network+, CCNA, CCNP

 

[burtsbees]

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on the sim take. But intervlan routing is very important in the real world. I was just commenting on what your lab consists of, which won't do intervlan routing. My take was that the man is trying to get his CCNA, maybe to get a job to gain experience. Boson is a start, on a much less costly budget.

Burt

 

[MDW19873]

I know how important Inter-VLAN routing is. I'm simply saying he would be better off working with the real equipment. I've come across so may inconsistencies with the Boson and switching its not even funny. I simply made the comment my lab didn't have it and why. I also said what he would have to buy in order to do the Inter-VLAN routing.

Also, considering the license for Netsim (CCNA) is $150, I'd say put that toward a switch. At least get something thats going to work, not to mention its actual equipment. Obviously you'll also need a router or another switch. I just don't think Netsim is worth the money they want for it.

A+, i-Net+, Network+, CCNA, CCNP

 

[burtsbees]

Sorry---I was just mostly commenting on this line you said...
"As far as switches goes, it comes down to understanding VLANs, VTP, Spanning Tree, and some Inter-VLAN routing. You can do most of these on a simulator."

Burt

 

[Minue]

I think it's a shame that a CCNA student would refuse to buy a small lab with a 2 router and a switch.On ebay you can find a 2500 or 1600 at the most 25 USD and a 2610 or 1721 for 115USD,also a Cataylst 2912 will mount to 100USD.I have use Boson SIM but most of the time some important command is missing.
What's 240 for a home lab that when you come to think about it a CCNA can charge 50-70 USD and hour for his skills.And if you plan to work in the IT industry it's a must to have a router,so you pratice your configs before applying it in a LIVE network.
And don't forget that you can resell your LAB from 1 year with a max of 30% lost.
Just go for the Routers leave the SIM alone obviously if you don't have a problem with space in you room
Regards

 

[wiimike]

I love the feedback, it has been amazingly helpful. For the moment I am sticking with using some sim software, but in a paycheck or two I will be purchasing 2 switches and a router.

What Minue said actually hit me, it's pretty bad refusing to fork over the money when it will can potentially earn me a lot more later in life.

What IOS should I be looking into as a minimum or a preferred for the routers / switches? I can look into how much an upgrade would cost, but if anyone has that in front of them it would be helpful.

I also just want to thank all the posters for taking your time to help me out.

 

[burtsbees]

wiimike, email me...

burt_bees@yahoo.com

Burt

 

[wiimike]

Ok, I think I have my setup for the most part.

I need 2 routers it seems, or at least this will cover the majority of what I need to prepare for the CCNA (and the CCNP?). The routers each need two serial ports.

I also need one switch at the minimum, though two is preferred in order to run root bridge elections, VTP, etherchannels, and some other things (ripped off of one of the guides from a previous poster). For these it seems the IOS is the most important factor.

My assumption is that a second router is more important than a second switch. I'm assuming the 2500 series works fine for routers, and that the 2900 series works fine for switches. This is a low budget project, and the configuration and testability is the most valuable thing to me.

I will check the IOS possibilities later as my internet connection is pretty finicky at work. Or if someone has a suggestion for me that would be good too.

Do I need anything else? Are there better suggestions for the price? Do I need to go for or avoid certain model numbers within these product lines? Do I need specific router or switch cards to do the job I need? (I have not finished my CCNA book, so I might be missing something/alot of things.

As always, thank you for your time and your help.

 

[wiimike]

Oh and I hear an access server would be nice to have for this, but I'm not exactly sure what's needed to implement this.

 

[burtsbees]

An access server is simply a KVM for routers, or console sessions for whatever. This is something you would not need unless you have a CCIE lab...or a big lab---I telnet from one to another, but the initial configs will require that you physically connect the console cables, of course.
The 2500's work for routing protocols, but CANNOT do intervlan routing. They do other things, but for CCNA, you need really only for routing protocols. The 2600's will do intervlan routing, but IP-Plus code is needed for that, and an 8MB flash and I believe at least 32MB of DRAM. I always max out my routers so I don't have to worry about it.

Burt

 

[wiimike]

Well, I got my lab setup bought.

2503-$36

2950 24 port w/2 gigabit - $210

2620 w/max mem/ram and isdn WIC - $143

I also need a WIC-1T or 2T for the 2620, which I'll be able to find for between $40 and $75, or perhaps in a 2610 for around $120, not sure which I'd prefer, since I'd wind up with a 2610 and no way of connecting it to my other routers, but perhaps I could resell it.

Thanks for all the help guys, items are on their way, =)

 

[jneiberger]

You can make a cheap access "server" with a handful of Cisco console cables and a 6-to-1 RJ-45 switchbox from

http://www.blackbox.com.

That's what I used and it worked great.