CICS keeps rebooting intermittently 4

[curlycord]

System always reboots on it's own 10-15 times a week.
Sometimes will not come back up on its own so they have power recycle.

They have had electrical checked out.
They tried a surge suppressor.
Telco has been out a few times to check the lines.

Remote location with no IRAD to check alarms (being quoted for key code).

We installed new KSU 6.1
3 months later replaced with new KSU, Software 6.0 and CII Card
3 months later replaced line card
1 month later replaced CICS with a refurb.
1 month later replaced KSU, software with 6.1 and CO card refurbed.

Any ideas? issue with certian CO cards?
Used so far:
NT7B75AAAF GATC CLID
NT7B75AAAE CII
NT7B66DW

Customer frustrated but so are we.

Thanks

 

[MarvO1]

Wow, what haven't you tried.

Wonder if you have some strong RF near the equipment.

Have you replaced the plastic KSU mounting strip? What about new screws?

Still sounds power related somehow. Good ground?

MarvO said it

 

[RikRodgers]

UPS? I rarely trust electricians when they tell me the power is clean.

When I've had that happen in the past, it's been either brownouts, or a bad pwr supply on the KSU. I don't think you'd get 4 bad power supplies in a row.

 

[curlycord]

I didnt think to change the screws on the mounting plate.
I should have learned from my other post:

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=730587&page=2

Ground they say checked out.

RF...what are items that would cause this?

They have re routed power to another plug on a different breaker at my request, I also got them to swap the KSU power cord with a PC and they have the UPS by-passed for now.

 

[Deweyhumbolt]

Very funny Marv, I would have said Power Supply, but the clincher would be a UPS that can track it's incoming power cycle.

Adversity is Opportunity

 

[MarvO1]

RF --can be tough to prove--
One of my troubled systems was near a doppler radar weather station we finally discovered. Once every 90 seconds, phones in use would buzz. I finally re-mounted the KSU very low on the wall with a grounded piece of sheet metal behind it. That took care of it.

Another one in a medical building would re-boot whenever an X-ray machine was used. I moved that KSU to a different wall.

Curly, what kind of business is your system in?

What is on the other side of the wall your equipment is on?
If a multi-story building, what is on the floor above and the floor below?

You have a tough one here my friend. You still might change the screws and mounting plate just so that you can say everything has been replaced.

MarvO said it

 

[Deweyhumbolt]

They make a mini-protector that clips on 66-block like bridge clips, maybe there is fluctuating voltage on CO lines.

Adversity is Opportunity

 

[curlycord]

They sell Trailers in a remote area.

As for 66 block that is very primitive to Canadians, I know USA still swears by it just like they swear the Philips is better than the Robertson screw driver (for some reason hehe) but we use the BIX system which I believe (as a Londoner)is the most advanced route. The C.O. lines do have lighting protectors on the lines....if any one know of something else for BIX?.

You know it that I help a lot on the forums and know most of my shit (but not all) but this problem has been going on since 2005 before I took over at this company.
Normaly I call the shots but it is I who has to deal with the customer and I feel for them since this is a problem from day one and they have been damn nice about it till now.
As a former tech and now service manager with 22 years experience in communications I am in the middle where my upper ranks say any calls from now on are now chargeable.
Rock and hard place?

My thinking is something damages the system/s but not sure what and maybe we cant fix but only replace such as we have done. What are the odds of 3 bad KSU's....I am thinking lightning may not be an issue since it's the same issue everytime. When lightning strikes it could be software glitchs, knock out ports, some phones or everything as it is seprattic.

Thanks for the replys.

 

[jpanzer]

To me, it sounds as if there is some kind of RF interference in the area, which is highly uncommon, or some power issue. Only other issue could be bad phones that are possibly taking too much of a power load from the system? I dunno... this one sounds interesting. That's all I can think of for this one, especially since you've tried everything else possible.

John Panzer

 

[stillputtin]

Sounds to me when you get this figured out there should be a award for you . Just my two cents worth. RF is a good possiblity, ground sheild of some sort around system (Maybe) Was thinking about some of our electrcians and thought you have done all. Are the power curcuits dedicated to that single outlet and as stupid as it sounds not wire though a switch or other timer device etc. (Had a young fella years ago with same problem with power wired through a switch and everytime shut the lights off / guess what. By the sounds of it you have covered all these possibles but just thought I'd check. If all else fails go simple / plug an electric clock to the outlet / set the time and when it happens again at least you would know how long the power was out / may even be a clue in there somewhere / cause I don't think it is your work.

 

[rconn]

I have a customer who is near the local transit street car maintenence operation. You can imagine what may go on with street cars on the grid. Initially they had a MICS with expansion modules and never had a problem. When I installed a CP150 I recommended a UPS and installed. On a regular basis they would come in the morning and the telephone system would be off. They would cycle the UPS off and on and all would be well. They always knew when the system went off by the MICS clock when power was restored. The MICS will accept almost any voltage and be happy about it. The UPS did not like clamping the extra high voltage at night for extended periods and would shut down. The voltage at site is rarely below 130 volts and I have seen it over 145 volts. The local power company seems to think this is fine. I used a logging voltage meter connected to a laptop to record data for two weeks. The customer installed a new and expensive 3 phase transformer with taps to help. I also installed a larger UPS of a different brand and it seems to be more tolerant.

A true online UPS would control the voltage within strict limits and filter any noise coming in the power line.

I have had high loop current disable lines in line cards and eventually burn the ports out over time. This is on the newer CLID cards. The older cards were more robust.

This may not help with your problem but I hope it may provide some more insight.

Rob

 

[curlycord]

Yes it does thanks guys.

I think will see what UPS they have and try the laptop test.
IOne of our guys thinks maybe CO voltage....nothing or noway to monitor though is there?.


Cheers

 

[exsmogger]

You should see about 50vdc on an idle CO line. I'd also measure the line current which should be in the 25-30mA range. The newer CLID cards definitely are sensitive to high line current, but I haven't seen it cause a system to reboot, just take the CLID card out of service or even damage the CLID card. I think rconn is on the right track with the UPS.

Brian Cox

http://www.jandjcommunications.com

 

[curlycord]

They have complained lines not in service on display....I took that as after the fact, while the system boots up but will verify.

 

[curlycord]

Called this morning, they state lines not in service when all seemed ok.

Also they state they had a voltage meter plugged in for awhile with an alarm on it and nothing happened.

Starting to think the CO lines now.

They say they dont have caller ID and do not plan to get it so I will swing a deal and ship them an old LSDS card and get them to return the CLID card.

 

[citypbx]

THE PROBLEM MAY ALSO BE TRACEABLE TO A FAULTY COPPER PAIR. DISCONNECT ALL SETS AND METER T/R ACROSS AND TO GROUND. YOU MAY FIND THAT A TERMINATED PAIR (YET NOT STATIONED WITH A SET)IS LOADING DOWN YOUR KSU

 

[norstarboy125]

i dont understand why they where buying CI cards if they don't have it nor do they plan to have caller id...I have to say as being a non-londoner we use bix over here in the ol US as a matter a fact all the M1 switchs that I work on all have BIX blocks but it seems like on mostly all the smaller systems I work on the Norstars & BCMS's we use the 66 style block which is by no means are primitive over here they are used very much. I will admit i like the way the bix cuts better but you have to admit it takes way longer to dress in your cables for ex. if someone said you had to terminate 600pr on bix or 66 i would have to choose 66 everytime unless i was getting paid by the hour...the best things about bix,110 blocks they save on space and they give a smooth cross connect and I have to mention i've never heard of a robertson screw driver but most of us techs. use Klein they are the best in my opinion. Anyway i hope that you get your problem over there resolved it sounds like you have tried everything under the sun...I've had a similar problem and I resolved it by purchasing these mini protectors that clipped onto the block like a bridging clip the same type things that Deweyhumbolt mentioned but they were for 66 blocks...LOL

 

[curlycord]

CII-
Was part of the original package sale, so when they lookup what was sold they replaced with the same, I so happened to ask them if in fact they do use Caller ID.


66 Block-
The 5th

Roberston-
A screw driver that has a square head so that the driver wont slip out from the screw head like a star or slot will/do.

Mini Protectors
Anyone know where I can get info on these?
What they protecting from? or what they are called?.

Thanks

 

[RikRodgers]

Curly- There are a few different models of "sneak current protectors" out there. I'm sure you've used something similar in the past, but I like the Ultralinx UP3B-235. You can find them at itwlinx.com . They are made for 66 blocks (sorry), and support 1 CO per. For proper protection, make sure you run a ground for them.

 

[curlycord]

Well thanks for the reply.

Some may get a star that thought CO voltage.

2 days and no issue with LSDS card but need to wait at least a week more then will do a follow up.

Marv for got to mention one story basement, they sell Trailers.

Cheers
CC