Chicks in IT: Any statistics available? 2

[jimoblak]

Please excuse the title: no disrespect is intended toward the ladies (or any men that consider themselves as 'chicks'). I just wanted a catchy 'must read' title...

I just received an advertisement for MS Windows Server 2003 which pictures a 20-something woman standing in a room full of rack servers. I've noticed a lot of women appearing in IT advertising lately. Are advertisers picturing women for the same reason that they do in beer & automotive commercials or is there a growing market of female IT professionals that advertisers are trying to relate to?

When I started teaching computers, my classes were nearly all male. I'm noticing a growing female student population and was curious if this is part of a greater trend. Does anyone know where I could find gender (and possibly ethnic/race) data on the IT workforce? As an instructor that wants to diversify classes, it helps to market the classes by demonstrating the growing opportunites for all in IT.

- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[sleipnir214]

Chicks in IT?

You're just asking for it, aren't you?



Have you tried digging around in the Bureau of Labor Statistics website?

http://www.bls.gov

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[lespaul]

But we came in to read the thread, so his "marketing" of the thread is working!!

I'd like to see any men that consider themselves as 'chicks'!!!

[ROFL]

I know that I'm one of the targeted and I know several other women in the IT field that I don't work with and 1/3 of our (very) small department are female.

but I don't have any statistics :-(

Leslie

 

[Stella740pl]

jimoblak,

When I started teaching computers, my classes were nearly all male. I'm noticing a growing female student population and was curious if this is part of a greater trend.

When I started to study computers, my classes were nearly all female, and about 50% of the instructors were male (most of them, in general, held higher professional degrees than my female instructors). But then again, I studied not in USA.

My first coworkers (in a medium size software company, in a department working mostly with databases) were mostly female, the same situation was in a few more departments, but the were departments mostly male, usually working on systems software & analysis and hardware.
Few years later much more men came to the same school to study computers, and it became about 50%/50%, as I heard from the students.

I tne 90s I came to USA, and had many more male coworkers than before, but also not so few female coworkers, in several very different companies. I don't think I can say that females in IT is a "growing trend" and not a usual practice, but maybe it's just my personal experience.

Stella

 

[jimoblak]

The thing that I am seeing in my little corner of the professional world (I teach and also work in the 'real' world) is that, right now, women are unfortunately in the lower ranks of IT and IT management is primarily male. As a student back in high school, I did see more female students in computer classes, but that seemed to be training for office support/secretarial positions, not better-paid computer science/software development.

It's nice to hear from at least 2 ladies so far that gender stereotypes of a male programmer wearing a pocket protector and thick eyeglasses are silly. ... unless of course, you ladies wear pocket protectors as well.

I'm just finding it hard to sell the idea of careers in IT to female students.

- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[Stella740pl]

gender stereotypes of a male programmer wearing a pocket protector and thick eyeglasses are silly. ... unless of course, you ladies wear pocket protectors as well.

No, just the eyeglasses. Along with most hands-on computer people of both genders around. Job specifics...

Stella

 

[rosieb]

For what it's worth, Tek-Tips UK forum seems to be about 10% female.

Where I currently work, it's 2.5 out of 15 (one post is job-share). Local government, so possibly not representative.

My impression (totally unsuported by any hard facts) is that there tend to be more women in software support/help desk, a few in programming/development and almost none on the hardware side.

If anything, I think the number of women in IT has actually decreased over the last 15 years.

 

[cryptogro4]

I worked for a Fortune 400 insurance company that had an IT staff of ~1000. Of that number, I would guess the percentage of females across all departments (ie, admins, programmers, data comm, etc.) to be 10% at most.

Of those that were in the "IT field," most of the 10% worked in the help desk department. There were females in other departments, of course, but out of maybe a team of 30 there was maybe 1 "chick."

Good marketing technique - you should consider the advertising field!

 

[GwydionM]

Our IT department has more than twenty men, six women and zero chickens.

The type of very abstract thinking that you need for computing is more common among males. It is also a nice niche for those of us who communicate can not really and may be something else thinking in a conversation moded.

 

[lespaul]

The type of very abstract thinking that you need for computing is more common among males.

My husband would find that very humorous! When I start going on about nested loops, variables and general coding complaints, he just gets this blank stare and says "Wow honey!" while thinking "what is she blabbering on about now!"

 

[sleipnir214]

There are many women you are and have been the best the world has to offer in the IT field. Admiral Grace Hopper is probably the canonical example.

There are also numerous examples of men who are helpless in the fields of IT or mathmatics.

But as a general rule, strong spatio-temporal thinking, often associated with mathematics and computers, is more commonly found in men.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/958646.asp?0cv=KA01&newguid=47D8E92A4BAB4B479376C79CA6E035CC&cp1=1

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[BJCooperIT]

Ohhhhh you guys are asking for it!

All right, I am OK now . When I first started programming in 1970 I was the token female. Slowly across the years the percentage has risen in each company for which I worked. In the past 8 years the programming staff ratio has generally been 8 to 1 (female dominated). That is reversed if I look at the ratio for men and women in IT management. Perhaps it is the industry or geography in which I work. Let us know if you find those statistics.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[jimoblak]

I have yet to digest the info at the Bureau of Labor Statistics as sleipnir214 generously offered - - but I am most entertained by the anecdotal posts.

I will definitely return with what I find.

It is concerning that there is an apparent silicon ceiling for women in IT management.


- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[SQLSister]

I've only worked for one female IT manager and she was a network admin which I find is very unusual for a woman. Most women I have run across are programmers or database admins. Never worked anywhere with a help desk so I can't speak to that, but since these are the lower paying positions, I wouldn't be surprised to find a larger percentage of women there.

I would disagree that women are less likely to be analytical from a genetic standpoint. I find that almost all girls with an analytical thought process are STRONGLY discouraged from using it because it will not make them acceptable to boys. Until middle school, both sexes do equally well in math and science, then there is a sudden drop-off as girls learn what is acceptable for dating. And many girls (Even in this day and age) are NOT encouraged to seek high paying careers because men will be there to take care of them.

The sad thing about all this is that the only time I found being analytical to discourage interest from the opposite sex was in school. It has NEVER been a problem since I became an adult.

 

[DrJavaJoe]

SQLSister when I was in school I thought the smart chicks were sexy, actually I still do. You know that librarian look.

 

[NiteLink]

So far, I've seen only male IT managers. My company so far, I've seen is a female sales manager. The other managers are male.

Fight?

What fight?

 

[jimoblak]

I also have to contest the idea that one sex is more analytical than another. I often feel that I am not analytical enough: does that make me a woman? Studies like this seem to analyze the general population. However, the general population does not all become programmers. Those that choose to work in IT, regardless of sex, appear to be equally skilled.

SQLSister...
men will be there to take care of them...
Really? Someone needs to tell all the girls that men can't even take care of themselves.

The happy news is that after years of watching boys voluntarily stay after school to work on the computer, I saw a girl stay after today. There may be hope after all.


- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[benlinkknilneb]

I'm heading into my final semester; my CS classes (small school, averaging about 20/class) have at MOST 4 "chicks"... and from the looks of things, the up & coming classes don't have a much stronger ratio.

jimoblak:
...I totally agree with your comment to SQLSister... I don't know where I'd be without my little lady.

Ben
A programmer was drowning. Lots of people watched but did nothing. They couldn't understand why he yelled "F1!"

 

[Stella740pl]

jimoblak,

The happy news is that after years of watching boys voluntarily stay after school to work on the computer, I saw a girl stay after today. There may be hope after all.

Or it also could be that the girl likes you or one of the boys that are staying. I know, I have a daughter in high school (and been there, done that myself years ago). Some girls know that often instead of playing little silly they need to take a genuine interest in the same things.

Stella

 

[Rhea737]

"Chicks"???!!!! (That is what Bette Midler said to those boys in Hocus-Pocus before she hung them from her ceiling in a cage.

PS - The captain of our IT ship is a female.