Certification Path - interested in security and anti hacking 1

[Dog6880]

I am working on my network+ certification and it seems to be going well based on the practice tests. I am assuming the next logical step would be Security+ if i am interested in Networks, Security of networks and systems, and tracking and preventing attacks on systems and networks.

After Security+ what is a good route to take? Also was wondering if A+ is worth going for if you already have a BA in Computer information systems.

A bit about me i have been out of school and not working in the IT field for the last five years however i have been building systems and fixing Peoples PC's and attempting to keep up with new technology. I have been in the military and law enforcement fields over that time and would like to get into the IT field in the military/law enforcement arena.

thanks for your time

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Dog6880,

Security + is one way to go for a basic understanding of security in addition to passing the exam you need to do tons of reading and "Googling" on security and "hang out" in security forums on the web!!

Not to take anything away from Security +, most pass it with little more experience then reading 1 book for the exam :-( This will be great if all you want to do is secure the home networks you are currently fixing computers for!

Realisticly, I spent a lot of time talking to some security experts at a Cisco Networkers convention several years ago - people who make six figures $$$$$$ protecting networks for a living. They gave the groups that came to hear them speak a little advice - to secure and protect a network, you need to understand networking like an expert!! They felt the very least one should be is a CCNA - since Cisco commands a majority of the networks you will be dealing with - they felt it would be better to be a CCNP - they were ALL CCIEs in both Routing and Switching as well as Security. It was a Cisco convention but they were not selling anything - just telling us the way it is - TO DO THE JOB RIGHT!!!!

They told horror stories of companies that had hired security "want-a-bees" and these guys had to come in and "clean up" the mess after the fact - lots of legal action against those that did not know what they were doing!!!

If you are really serious about security you might want to look at Cisco (as discussed above) or the path to CISSP - Certified Information Systems Security Professional, I said path because it is not a cert you pick up reading 1 book :-( Here is the website -

http://www.isc2.org/

The key to all of this is UNDERSTANDING NETWORKS, ROUTERS, SWITCHES AND FIREWALLS ETC. - like the back of your hand FIRST!!!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Dog6880]

very very helpful best answer i got from anyone, no one put me on that track and i like it.

i suppose the network + and security + are an ok place to start seems your way is of more substance.

Thanks

 

[Dog6880]

one other thing

it seems CCIE is a long road... assuming i will set my goals high after network+ and security+ what would be the sequence of certs on the road to CCIE. assuming it works that way

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Dog6880,

You said - "i suppose the network + and security + are an ok place to start seems your way is of more substance." YES, it is a GREAT place to START but don't make the mistake as many have and think that you are ready for anything more then "home networks" by passing a basic cert exam!!!

As you can see I am Network +, also I have been teaching CCNA in a Cisco Network Academy since 1999, most CompTIA certs show a good, basic understanding of the subject, nothing wrong with them, they are a start!!

As for A+ - if you are fixing computers, might bennifit you having it on your biz card, but if you are looking for a job in IT the BA in CIS (IMHO) should take you much, much farther than an A+ cert. If you are trying to get a job in networking in the area of IT I would do CCNA at the very least!!

Hope this helps!!


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Dog6880,

No pre-req for CCIE, you can take the written test right away however, realisticly for CCIE it would be CCNA, CCNP, then CCIE written and then CCIE Hands-on Lab.

Most say that you should have AT LEAST 5 years of ON THE JOB work with Cisco Networking before attempting CCIE

Google CCIE etc and hang out in some CCIE forums and you will get a feel how little you know about networking - these guys are awsome with what they know!! I have talked to a lot of CCIE's and those that have failed several times - the testing is THAT HARD, I read somewhere that (Cisco DOES NOT release the numbers) but the pass rate first time is about 18% (for the lab) :-(

Good luck!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Dog6880]

thanks for the info.. finding this forum has been more informative than all the talking with people in the field. Setting up a cert path has been the hardest part. so from what i gather the below would be a good way to go:

Network +
Security +
CCNA
CCNP
CCIE written
CCIE Hands-on Lab

please suggestions are most welcome. I am in no way a pro.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Dog6880,

Just to be clear, NO reason you have to do Net+ and Security +. You could start right into CCNA and pick up Net + along the way if you wanted!!

I only did Net+ because I got FREE training (with FREE hotel and Exam) as part of a big teaching grant for a college in Florida a few years back. It was 100% FREE - does not get any better

I wouldn't touch Security + until I was done with CCNA - I think you will get more out of it with a better understanding of networking. Nothing says that you could not do it as you are working on the 4 exams for CCNP.

You will really want to check out the Cisco Certification forum here at Tek-Tips for ideas on setting up a hands-on lab for CCNA and CCNP.

I would hope that with your BA in CIS and your CCNA you could get a job in IT - this is something you will want to do ASAP. Cost for books, classes, a lab etc. as well as test fees for CCIE can be very high. Getting your CCIE from an almost zero start point should be a 5 to 10 year goal, just take it 1 step at a time.

Go to the

http://www.cisco.com

website and look into the different Cisco certs as well as Cisco Network Academies in your area. Go check the Cisco Cert area here and ask questions as they come up!

Do Net+ if you think you need a stepping stone but with a BA in CIS - not sure if you need it.

Good luck!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Dog6880]

The cost of the tests for net+ and sec+ are negligible i have yet to look at sec+ i can only hope there is much more to it then net+ since i am having an easy time with it.

I will probably do as you suggest and get sec+ while working on CCNP or CCNA. There are still a few detailed things i am getting out of net+ such as subnetting which i never had to deal with and the protocols used on non window OS/servers also something i never dealt with, only breezed through in college.

Thanks for the info i am sure i have more then several years of goals to work on.

 

[SimonDavies]

I will be honest and say that the Sec+ and Net+ aren't really worth the money if you're serious about wanting to specialise in a particular field. To give you a for instance, I sat my Sec+ in 18 minutes, that's from walking into the test center to walking out, I got a score of 868 out of a possible 900 and I didn't find it difficult at all.

As far as the CISSP goes; it's not a simple sit down and do the course type exam, first of all you have to have a proven 5 year record of working in the field, you have to sit the exam and even having passed the exam you aren't guaranteed to become a CISSP until Peer review (at least that's how it used to be).

ISC2 also do other certifications so I would also have a look at them (they do one that leads up to the CISSP but doesn't require you to know all 10 Domains (

http://www.isc2.org/)

for more info.

I would also perhaps look at the CISM route (

http://www.isaca.org)

or even get some useful information from the CEH (

http://www.eccouncil.org/ceh.htm).

I strongly believe that if you know how to penetrate the network you have a better idea how to protect it.

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[DallasBPF]

I can not vouch for the Sec+ since I am more in the Voice/Network side (hoping to eventually get my hands in the security side after I finish my CCNP) but speaking on the the Net+ it is really not that easy unless you know everything about fiber/cabling specs, osi model, how linux/windows/novell network, diff between token ring/ethernet, buss/ring/star topologies... There is more to is, but that gives you an idea... The point of the CompTIA exams IMO is not to do anything more than show a future employer you have a really good understanding of that specific field (pc, net, sec, linux, serv, ect...)

Do you need it, not really you can learn a decent bit just taking the CCNA courses, but they wont teach the differences in types of fiber... you won't learn how the OS's network... Which I personally found the Novell stuff to be quite boring =)

That being said, I had my CCNA before I took my Net+ and for me it was a breeze in a lot of area's but there were other parts of it that was pretty rough since I never messed with Linux/Novell or fiber...

just my 2 cents is all...

------------------------------------
Dallas, Texas
Telecommunications Tech
CCVP, CCNA, Net+

CCNP in the works

 

[tfg13]

This is a post that I find near and dear to my heart!

I also sat the Sec + and passed with relative ease.

After Sec +, I had a "change". I went from a Windows SA to a Network security analyst. Sec + and/or CISSP does not prepare you for the oddities that you will find floating around in networks. Truthfully, not a lot of "certifications" will. Anyway, below is the direction I have gone/am going since the Sec +:

SANS GCIA
SANS GCIH
EC-Council's C|EH
ISC2's CISSP
now onto my planned
Offensive Security's OSCP
SANS GPEN
CWNP's CWNA
CWNP's CWSP
Offensive Security's OSWP

As you can see, I did do the CISSP, but as a requirement for my job. All others are designed to fill in gaps as a network design guy. Have to know how to find the holes in our networks in order to fix them. Have to know what hackers are going to try, so I have to think like one.

In all honesty, I felt the C|EH was a waste of time, and really wish I had gotten my CISSP sooner. This was my direction for security and "anti-hacking". By no means do I think you should go the same direction, but thought I would include some courses that I think work.

 

[tfg13]

CiscoGuy, I read somewhere that the pass rate for the lab first time out is 0%. When I was looking at Cisco certifications as a career motivator(right out of the military), the cost of the lab was $2500, and I was told (by more than one CCIE) to take out a loan for $5000, because I was guaranteed to fail the 1st time. Kind of made me 2nd the thought. But I do still like the thought that I would be 1 of 100k in the world with the cert.....

 

[CiscoGuy33]

tfg13,

You said - "But I do still like the thought that I would be 1 of 100k in the world with the cert..... " Last time I looked Cisco had about 13,000 CCIE's for Routing and Switching and a lot less of the other CCIE areas. I know if you look you can find the number of each kind broken down by country

Pass rate is not 0% - might seem that way to many I have gone to 5 different Cisco Networkers conventions (now called Cisco Live) and have talked with lots of CCIE's and many working on it - I did talk to several that passed it first time !! Cisco does not discuss pass rates but different places on the web place it at about 18-20% on the first attempt. With 80% failing - I think most should be ready for several attempts

As far as $5,000 - I thought the written was $300, Lab was $1,200 but you have to travel to a test area in North Carolina or Calf. (for the USA) and stay in a hotel at least a day or 2 so you are fresh and not late to the exam.

I think the $2,500 might have been in the days of the 2 day lab - if I remember it was $1,200 per day but you only paid for the 2nd day if you were asked to come back, some failed the 1st day :-( now it is a 1 day (8 hour) lab!

CCIE is still a very exclusive club!!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[tfg13]

I think you are right on the $5k. I think that also included study materials and other "stuff". When I looked into it, it was 9 years ago. A lot has changed in 9 years, to include which direction I went as far as career progression. Thought I would be a network and system admin forever, until I came across an opening for network security, and got the job.