Certification & Training Recommendations - Advice Please

[davesaint]

I've been working in IT for 18 years, 3 years in the Army as a Data Comm Center Op (send and receive messages), 1 year as a computer operater (DEC PDP11), 2 years as a telecommunications central office eqipment installer (5ESS, 4ESS 1B processors) (AT&T), 3 years as an on-site customer engineer responsible for maintaining a $8.0 million 385 pieces of equipment at an US Army Base as part of the Digital Storage and Retrieval of Engineering Documents System (DSREDS) project( Maintained AT&T 3B2 Unix Minicomputers, plotters, FEPs, Mainframe, DASDs, Film Processors, two campus lans, 2 video teleconferencing centers, multiple workstations, multiple laser recorder devices, Filenet jukeboxes, printers, laser printers, scanners, and other equipment). Also I maintained two video rooms for the Air Force. I received a promotion and became site manager for the project until the Army closed down the base. I worked for Lucent as a project manager and obtained my project management certification (PMI PMP). I left Lucent 3 years ago to work as a project engineer for Nortel. I was responsible for overseeing the implementation of Nortel's Shasta Broadband Service nodes in a customers network. After a year I was laid off and moved over to AG Edwards as a project manager. I was laid of from AG Edwards after a 1 1/2 and here I sit. The job situation out there is bad for project managers also right now because companies are not spending money. I thought that this might be a good time to obtain other certifications. I checked out numerous tech schools and boot camps. Based on my background what certifications should I obtain? Has anyone ever heard of Career Academy (

http://careeracademy.com).

Could some of you please check this site out and tell me what you honestly think of their training methods. They are offering me CD training,books, test simulator, guarantees on passing the tests for the Network+, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, CCNA certifications for $1700. The fees for the tests are not included. Also could you please take a look at the networking classes that the University of Missouri at St. Louis is offering. Below is their web address.

http://www.micros.umsl.edu/catalog/toctable.html.

Your thoughts and guidance will be appreciated.

 

[wybnormal]

Personally, I would suggest something that is a real class with real people that you can.. ummm.. "network" with them. It's been my experience that getting a job hinges more on who you know then any one other thing. There are exceptions to be sure but consider this. My curent position was due knowing someone else of another Cisco board. It had nothing to due with Monster, Dice or any other job listing. And this is not the first time it has worked this way. The IT world at times is very small and the whole idea of 6 degrees of seperation really does work.

Find a good recruiter.. I understand that sounds like a contradiction in terms but there are a few good ones out there and more then a few to stay away from. Hang around some of the consultant boards and ask around.. the patterns will be apparent.

Whatever classes you take, make sure they teach to more then just the test. Without the extra knowledge, you will have a tough time in the interviews. The cert carries a certain level of expectation so be prepared to measure up. I suspect there is alot of knowledge in the head right now so it's more of filling in the blanks then it is trying to learn something from scratch?

I'll say this..it's harder to find a good network geek then it is to find a good NT geek. So the network geeks tend to make better money.. or least in my neck of the woods they do. I would also suggest some Unix training.. not alot but at least the basics of Unix/Linux. We have over 30 Macs running OS X and there seems to be a slow but steady increase their presence Given they are Unix on the backside, understand it goes a long way to working on them.. the pretty Aqua GUI aside.

Learn some network security.. big time interest in a engineer that can at least talk and act the basics of security. And I'm not talking about setting passwords. It's more about knowing how IP works, basic attacks and defenses, what makes a secure network overall and the tradeoffs involved. And network security is NOT knowing how to config your Linksys router.. it's alot more involved then that.. as I had to explain to a candiate. :::sigh::::

MikeS
Find me at

http://www.packetattack.com

"Take advantage of the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes, and attack unguarded spots."
Sun Tzu

 

[balaganesh]

Check the website

http://www.topguntechnologies.com

Everything u learn is hands on.

-Ganesh

 

[dogbert2]

Hmmm, that's a interesting concept, as I have 20.5 years of experience in Computer Systems. I'm curious, if you looked at my resume and said "Sorry, no certs", I wonder if I would even get a look-see in today's environment (I have a job currently).

I didn't earn my first cert until I had more than 18 years of work exp. in all aspects of computer systems (mainframes, minicomputers, PC's, design, LANS, Routers, programming, DB, etc). It seems a shame that we have too much emphasis on the cert/degree, rather than the person themselves (i'm currently a system/network admin).

Btw, do you know that most jobs in IT do not require a "degree" in the sense of being able to do the job. That's another mess put in by Human Resources people and clueless management (I have a associate's degree, just finished it in December of last year).

 

[wybnormal]

Dogbert.. unless there was something very stiking about your resume, it probably would not make it to my desk without the cert. This will depend on what exactly I'm looking for. For example, if I need someone strong in data packet analysis, there are not many certs that cover this sort of speciality so I would flag other items to be of importance. But for the average sysadmin job, network engineer etc, the cert shows some level of initative to get some type of blessing. I dont take it as gospel, I have met too many paper XYZs, it's a sorting tool. Nothing more.

If you have X number of years of experience and no cert, I have to wonder why not given it's not that hard to do. something to prove? I dont need that kind of 'tude in the workplace. I look for someone willing to go that extra bit on their own. Which brings up yet another point. A candiate that tells me they paid for their own certs, gets extra points over one who was *made* to go by a former employer. The one who paid for it had to make a choice of using their funds for advancement or partying(etc) and they chose advancement. It's a pet peeve of mine of too many people wanting to given something instead of getting off their butts and doing something on their own.

For the record Dogbert, while I went to school for a EE/BS, I never finished it so I dont have the degree either. Doesnt mean I think it's best, it's just how things worked out and I know for a fact that I missed out on some very cool jobs due to not having that piece of paper.

And yes I do know about the relationship between job, Skills and degrees. I started over 20 years ago as a desktop support tech working on dumb terminals and pulling cable. No degree, no certs and had to BS my way into the job since I had been laid off as an ET. I've seen alot in that amount of time and have done alot.

MikeS
Find me at

http://www.packetattack.com

"Take advantage of the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes, and attack unguarded spots."
Sun Tzu

 

[jbaugh]

My 2¢ worth. When I post a network job, HR will pre-screen applications for key words that I supply. Although my company is big on degrees, I can get around that by listing a certain amount of experience along with specific certifications, depending on the position I am trying to fill. Unfortunately, someone with a ton of experience but no degree or certs will not make the HR cut, since these are generally done by an entry level person who is looking for those all-important keywords. I don't think that we are unique in that regard.

As far as the programming and/or data analysts, the keywords are more what languages are you familiar with, as there are not that many certs for programmers. However, most of those people are degreed in CS or something similar.

My advice is to apply your experience and earn the certifications in the area you are interested in. Security is a key driver right now. If I had to do my CCNP over again, I would go for the new Cisco CCSP instead.

Good Luck,

Joe Joseph B. Baugh, PMP, CISSP, CBM, CCAI, CCNP, CCDP, CCSE, CUE
Network Services Manager, Sierra Southwest Cooperative

"The road goes on forever and the party never ends." -- Joe Ely: Love And Danger, 1993

 

[dogbert2]

wybnormal,

Makes sense, I started on a BSCS in 1981, but never finished it (rationale, I was learning quite a bit on the job, and just didn't bother to go back and finish it). I just find that too many places WANT to place way too much emphasis on that 'little piece of paper' (I look for ads in classifieds which state degree or combination of education/experience needed).

I just collect certs anymore (they are framed and shoved into the bottom of a dresser drawer - got 9 of them at the moment), currently working on my CCNP/DP, will probably start CCSP in the fall. I pay for my own certs and training materials/classes (stick uncle sam with tax deduction for cont. education).

I've never tried to BS my way into a job, i've done jobs which I didn't have the skills for, but managed to learn along the way. That's the key, if you can apply what you have learned from self-study/classes/etc on the job.

I'm thinking of getting a BS in IT from the univ. of phoenix since I wouldn't need a ton of classes to finish it given my AA degree and waivers, but again, once I get it, i'd just frame it and drop it in the dresser drawer