Central Office style of Cable Lacing 3

[daronwilson]

Greetings,

I find myself in uncharted territory. I'm normally on the consumer side of things, but this month I'm inside a verizon wireless switching center doing voice and data cabling. After two weeks of debate and research, we're finally understanding the differences. The 'engineer' wrote the specs for the project and required an RCDD to oversee the installation, and required the cabling meet EIA/TIA standards with BICSI references. Unfortunately, the customer (Verizon Wireless) says their facilities must adhere to NSTD 119 standards.

The main rub here is our cabling in cable tray. We have two choices, either a solid pan type cable tray or if it is open ladder cable tray, the cables must be grouped and 'sewn' inplace ever 3rd rung. This engineer will not allow solid pan cable tray, so I guess I'm sewing!

Never done it, really can't even find what seems like good pictures of how it goes in, etc.

Anyone have specific Central Office type buildout experience with maybe some picutres? Sources for the 'supplies' needed?

thanks in advance!

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[Trotski]

You will need some waxed Linen Twine(string), a large matteress needle, and (as I have used, not for many years)a worn hacksaw blade with the end modified into a hook
(soory, I have no pictures)

In the old Telecom Australia we used to do this for old SxS installs but gave it up as too time consuming when we went to Xbar, although I believe newer switches have gone back to it.
I will see if I can find an old engineering instruction

 

[edfair]

Western electric had a curved cable needle with a handle for use in picking up the free end on 2nd and higher banks. Basically a flattened out needle with a slot from one side into the eye.

Brings back memories from 50 years ago.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Trotski]

I have used a large flat crochet needle (pinched from my Wife)for the same purpose.

But the modifed Hacksaw blade was the best as it did not push apart the layers much when you pulled the string through.

 

[SYQUEST]

daronwilson,

P.K. Neuses makes all those tools for lacing cables and more! Their website is:

http://www.pkneuses.com

and phone is 847-253-6555.

Ask them if they have any practice or procedure for lacing cables. They make all the old Western Electric and Automatic Electric tools for relays, cables and other stuff, etc.

....JIM....

 

[mikeydidit]

Good to see you Daron. It's been a while. I tried you email a while back but it doesn't seem to be the same that i used to bug you on... LOL. Hope things are well with you. I have been using that sort of rack and I will post a picture for you. We have gotten away from the old twine or thread and now lace these using zip ties. I will post a picture for you and see what you think.

Again good to here from you.

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.
Thomas A. Edison

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[mikeydidit]

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.
Thomas A. Edison

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[skip555]

nothing constructive to add but I do hope to see you posting more , Ive learned a lot from you in the past

 

[mikeydidit]

http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/seriesmaster.asp?series_id=Cable+Lacing+Tools

http://www.tecratools.com/pages/telecom/cable_tools.html

http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/

http://www.tecratools.com/pages/tecalert/cable_lacing.html

These should help Daron. One is an old Navy Manuel for lacing cables published in 1962. It was cool looking back in the past, I thought so anyways.


Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.
Thomas A. Edison

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[daronwilson]

Thanks Gentlemen,

I'll need to edit my profile i guess. Former company went away two weeks before Chrstmas, so i have a couple weeks off but then back to work, more money better terms.

Anyway, here is where i am. The horizontal cabling section of this job required an RCDD on site to oversee horizontal cabling and make sure it was compliant to BICSI standards. We're half way through pulling the cables and the 'owner' (Verizon Wireless) points out that we have to sew cables in the tray because it is in their standard. Somewhere in the 800 page spec book for the job is a little statement that says if any of the standards conflict with Verizon standards, the most stringent standard will be followed. So far their requirement for labeling, securing cables, terminating and many others conflict. So yesterday they provided me with their spec which is a Company CONFIDENTIAL CLASSIFIED standard available on their internal LAN only.

I figure we bid in good faith what they asked for in the specifications, and if they want to now change and NOT meet EIA/TIA standards and BICSI guidelines, that is fine...however, that change should be at their expense. It looks like they will want this all sewn in groups of 12 in the cable tray. Part of that is combing the cables in a nice straight parallel line.

I've asked that they now relieve me from any EIA/TIA standards compliance, and that they relieve me from any requirement to meet BICSI installation guidelines, and since they want modular plugs crimped on solid wire in a patch bay i cannot meet testing requirements for horizontal cabling channel or link either i want to be relieved of the testing requirements.

This is good too! The specs and drawings conflict in over 12 places as to the termination spot of all this cabling. Some parts say the telco room, some parts say the Data/IT room. Half way into the project they figured that the runs were too long in either location. So, now the cable lands in the 'adjunct' room in the middle of the facility. Then, they (the customer) will provide cables from there to the ethernet switches (some 80 feet away). So i have probably 10% of this 450 cable install that are over 300 feet even without their 80' extension. It's nuts.

Thanks for the sewing info, i'm sure i'll know how when i'm done with this project. Their standard does not allow plastic cable ties, since they can be installed without cutting them properly and can cut the technician working on stuff after them.

Geez i love to learn if they don't mind paying!

Daron Wilson, RCDD
Systems Integrator
Oregon Electric Group
daron (at) wilson (dot) org

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[edfair]

Based on 50 year old rememberances, you are not going to get good lacing on 12 cable groups. The group I ran signal cable with pulled 10 at a time but laced 2 at a time, top and bottom. And we had the advantage of the cable pulling tight from a 5 story drop.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[daronwilson]

Thanks for your ideas folks, I do appreciate the links and suggestions. I've laced wires before, in bundles, but never 'sewn' cables to the rungs of the cable tray. A picture is of course worth a thousand words, i just can't seem to find a picture of this type of sewing. I'll keep looking, unless i can convince them otherwise, I'll have picture galore in a few weeks!

thanks,

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[brianinms]

Here are some good examples from Quest ... start at page 108

http://www.qwest.com/techpub/77350/77350.pdf

 

[Trotski]

Good link that is the stuff i was thinking of

that should get you going daron!!

 

[daronwilson]

brianinms,

thanks, very helpful! I figured there had to be some instructions out there somewhere. Of course, having someone show you the technique and being able to see a job that was done right will help me. We do have a guy on site working for Verizon that is their expert. I offered a case of beer and whatever he needs for some time to show me, and he said he'd show me the technique. At least when i walk in i'll have the tools, and with this reference i'll have most of the idea down.

Again, thanks very much for picking that out for me. I'll have pictures when it gets done, can't take too m any of those!

Regarding the bundle, i think it will look like crap myself with bundles of 12 sewn every other rung. The Verizon guy says they wrap the bundle in fiber paper of some sort, then sew it so it doesn't get pulled too tight. We'll see.

thanks again!

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[jeffmoss26]

They often put fiber paper over any wires that have the jacket stripped off, then they tie them down.

jeff moss

 

[mikeydidit]

It never seems to fail. To get a telecomm guy to do something, mention "Beer" and it's " Ah, yeah. When do you want it??"

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.
Thomas A. Edison

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[jeffmoss26]

I was told that with a case of beer, they will put a smartjack just about anywhere

jeff moss