CCTV in manufacturing Environment - Central Power Supply 6

[fdan4817]

I am normally a computer software developer. However, I have been put in charge of researching an upcoming project in area totally new to me.

We are a small manufacturing company located in six buildings across our facility (two on one road; four on the next road over). We are planning CCTV cameras in each building (9-10 interior cameras per building; 2-3 exterior cameras per building). I have learned much since starting this project as far as camera range, etc. However, the one area that is eluding me is how to verify that a group of cameras can be centrally powered and over what distance they can be powered from a central location. The need to run only only cable is preferred, but we certainly want to avoid having to wire power outlets at each camera. I have seen both 12VDC (seemingly the most common) and 24VAC cameras. Is this the full range and of these which can powered from a central location? Is there another type (one that can be powered by cat 5 cable?) that I am overlooking or is that one the aforementioned types?

Also as a side note, is it generally better to try to purchase a "camera package" which includes all cabling, software, etc. or to "pick and choose?"

Thanks in advance. While new to this site, I am impressed by the responses I have seen to other questions.

fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[netmanrick]

Have you looked at IP cameras ?

Rick Harris
SC Dept of Motor Vehicles
Network Operations

 

[fdan4817]

Excuse my ignorance, but I am new to this territory. What is the difference in an IP camera and how would it help in this situation.

Let me add (this my help in the responses) that we will connecting the cameras in each building into a PC for monitoring/recording purposes. My research seems to indicate that we should have no problem hooking the 10-12 cameras in each building to a single PC (250 GB hard drives for recording). We will be using software (still researching that also) which has motion detection capabilites so as to only record when something is happening.



---
fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[fs483]

You can try looking at the products from March Networks (

http://www.marchnetworks.com).

I worked for a retail company some time ago that switched over to these cameras. My employer use to have those older analog cameras and the image wasn't so good. The new cameras were digital and everything was recorded to a DVR unit that doesn't need a PC to operate. You can then hookup a computer to it to view the footage locally or it can also be used to host a website from which you can view the footage through the net. I don't know if it's worth it (cost wise) for a manufacturing plant but it sure does help to use as proof for shoplifting cases. The cameras/software have amazing functionalities that allow for auto tracking of a moving target, printouts, zoom and all of them were centrally powered. I think March Networks can also do a survey and installation.

 

[fdan4817]

OK. I know I am sending more replies to my post than might be normal, but this is a work in progress. IP cameras will definitely be out of the price range we are targeting (max $400/camera). However I did see a number of places to purchase DC/Coax combined cables up to approx. 200 feet. How far can we carry a 12vdc .5a current? I have seen some figures here and there but not sure I fully understand the formulas. We are looking at some cameras potentially being 200 feet from the central power supply. Would 24vac carry better with less voltage drop across that distance?

Dan Fontenot

---
fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[hbiss]

I am normally a computer software developer. However, I have been put in charge of researching an upcoming project in area totally new to me.


It absolutely amazes me what an employer will stoop to trying to save a few bucks. Tell the cheapskate to get a security contractor in to do the job right the first time. He has no business asking you, you haven't clue but that's because it's not your job in the first place.

-Hal

 

[AdmanOK]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe some of enjoy working on these "extra" projects? It gives us an opportunity to get to discover things we had never worked with before. People who need to back off of posts asking for advice and not always jump in with a "stop being cheap" response. If someone isn't interested in doing a project then they wouldn't be posting here for advice in the first place. Telling this person that they shouldn't be doing it in the first place doesn't help him them in any way.

 

[hbiss]

When I was a electronics prototype tech (way back in the 70's) the roof on the plant sprung a leak. Guess who the boss asked to fix it. Ever melt hot tar in a 5 gal bucket on a charcoal fire and haul it up to the roof on the end of a rope? When the air conditioning died he sent me up there to replace the compressor. Ever braze refrigeration lines, evacuate and recharge a system? Point is I didn't know a damn thing about roofing or refrigeration, what I did I figured out.

So, did I enjoy working on these "extra" projects? What choice did I have.

Did I make a mess? You bet. The roof started leaking again and the new compressor died. They finally had to hire pros like they should have in the first place.

-Hal

 

[fdan4817]

Thanks for comments on both sides of the "the boss oughta..." issue.

However, it is a nice break from the everyday routine of writing code. And, it adds another facet to my job and another skill to skill set. Part of the reason I was asked to be involved is because I will be responsible for maintaining the software piece of the system.

Back to the original question...I think I have figured out most of what I needed to know and can put together some reasonable figures to pass on the boss.



---
fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[netmanrick]

The beauty of IP cameras-----POE(Power Over Ethernet).You can power the camera from a distance of 100 meters(theoretically). Only 1 cable to pull(cat 5/5e cable).
About cost........ How much is your inventory/product/brain trust worth ?

Rick Harris
SC Dept of Motor Vehicles
Network Operations

 

[fdan4817]

I can see your point. However, it appears we can get quality 12VDC cameras for less than $500, where as the IP cameras I found (maybe I didn't look in the right places) started at about $1200. So, $700 X 72 = $50,400. That is steep difference.

I will continue to do some research on the idea as it seems like it has potential advantages.



---
fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[Sunrise05]

Why not go with IP camera's. They can be powered over ethernet using either switches (Cisco 3750) or POE injectors. You can even link the buildings via Point-to-Point wirless and have everything go back to one Video Recording unit for storage.

 

[fdan4817]

Thanks for all the suggestions regarding IP cameras. However, after talking to my boss, I was informed that all we were looking at on cameras is $100 (approx.) bullet cameras. Oh well (better luck next time).



---
fdan4817
I think I can!

 

[netmanrick]

I understand the BOSS syndrome. I try to be the devils's advocate any time cheaper is better is used as a excuse.
Infoworld has several good articles on security cameras.
Nothing wrong with 12v units.

Good luck

Rick Harris
SC Dept of Motor Vehicles
Network Operations

 

[bikechuck]

For longer cable runs alot of power supplys have a higher voltage option 24vdc-28vdc. Many cameras work on ac and dc. Some of the power supply systems sold by security vendors are pretty slick in offering multiple voltage ac/dc options to each camera. It's not uncommon to have cameras from a few different vendors in a system with different power options. In your case with multiple buildings you could power the cameras from a central point in each building such as where the cables enter the building. Just split the power pair off right there and terminate to whatever works. Sometimes I just buy some power packs at radio shack, plug them into a power strip, cross connect to camera power wires. This can be an effective solution. Usually each power pack can run about 3 cameras. If one fails radio shack is never far away.

 

[bikechuck]

The package systems are simple, straight up plug and play. Thats just the computer, drive and software. A neat feature is the ability to only record when there is movement. Keeps you from using to much drive space.

 

[ddobb]

I am using an Altronix power supply for my 12 cameras and it works great. It rack mounts. Call Altronix and let them know exactly how long your runs are and how much power you need at each camera and they will provide you with a solution. Good luck.

 

[daronwilson]

As much as I like the gadgets, personally I think the IP camera issue is mostly hype. The marketing people think that if they can convince you to run it over 'cat5' they can sell more of the product. Oh i know the arguments "you already have Cat5 everywhere", "it will run on your existing network", "POE so no separate power supply", etc. But, here is the deal.

1. For the most part, you have to get wire from the camera to where you want to view or record it. Be it Cat6 or siamese RG59 w/2C18 power wire, you still need wire there for the camera, so the real difference is what type of wire you are using. If you are talking about using existing Cat5, i suppose that could save you a few sheckles, assuming you want your camera mounted at outlet height.

2. Run these on your existing network - yeah....perfect, add 16 cameras streaming video onto your backbone. I watched this at a health care facility, you could be quite surprized at how much bandwidth something like that can hog. Not that networks ever go down or stall, but, if you are talking security, that means your security system crashes then as well. Another interesting issue is that when you put it on the network, you gotta get the IS guys to work with you. Not a problem, but if you have a security concern in that department, it can cripple your ability to gather information.

3. Power - a 12 or 24 volt power supply is pretty inexpensive compared to a POE ethernet switch.

There are certainly applications for IP cameras, we use them at construction sites, single or two camera sites where the customer wants remote access via the internet. I

So...read and learn, weigh your options, consider servicability, scalability and installation costs.

Then...go ask folks who have nice camera systems (casinos, banks, etc.) and see what they have installed and how it is working for them.

good luck

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD