CCTV cabling 5

[mikeydidit]

This is looking like something I am going to have to deal with and thought I would see what you are using.

I was asked to spec out some cables to install a CCTV camera out on a light pole. The close cameras that are not going outside, i use the same cabling that I do for networking. Run these back to a POE board in our switches and be done with it.

But this is going to be for an outside camera, so it will need to be outdoor rated. Also this may need electric with it for a heater and a blower. One of our staff engineers mentioned a Siamese cable that has two number 16 awg. cables one on each side for this. All of the cables I have found have PVC jackets, and are jelly filled which is a major No NO within the hospital. Or anywhere really if it is not terminated within 50 feet of the entrance.

I have heard they make fiber with this same setup {Siamese cables) with the electric attached. But this would require a fiber to Ethernet converter. These are exspensive..

Is their a better way? How do you handle this type of install? What would you use on this??

Thanks as always for your time and replies.



When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

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[trvlr1]

When they say terminated within 50 feet of the entrance, you can terminate it on a block and transition to indoor cable for the rest of the journey.(or fiber transition etc etc) You probably want to seriously look at lightning protection too.

 

[RikRodgers]

True...

Entrance cable cannot contain icky pick past 50' within a building, per national fire code.

Which cable you use is dependant on the type of connector on the camera, and the equipment it's connecting to at the other end. If you don't have far to go outside, just use the appropriate type cable in PVC (or gel pack if you wish), then transition to plenum rated inside if necessary.

 

[mikeydidit]

These are for IP cameras (sorry should have mentioned that to begin with) so I have been using Cat 5E on the ones that mount to the outside walls. I run a conduit to the backside so the cables are not exposed. Then I have no problems.

But the ones going outside are going to be more difficult. Just wondering what would be the best cables to use and how to?? Fiber may be the best option but it gets expensive. But i may have to do what I have to do.

Keep the ideas coming.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

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[robertjo24]

There is a outdoor rated Cat5e that is dry blocked, no gel fill to deal with. We use Genesis #50901008. You could pull that with a separate 16/2.
I am not sure if they make the siamese in a dry block. You can look at

http://www.genesiscable.com.

I imagine that you could call them and ask about the siamese cable.

 

[Servamatic]

How far is this cable going to run? 16/2 may not be adequate based on distance and power requirements.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

Richard (good to see you on here BTW its been a while) it is going to vary from project to project. All the ones we have had to do so far have been under the 285 foot rule, so no problems.I have not had to connect blowers or heaters yet but it is coming.

As you can see (and have probably had to deal with your self) their is a lot of gray areas here.

How do you plan for this type of installation?

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

It has been a while Mike, thanks.

As long as you are under the 90 meter standard, a good outdoor rated camera on POE should be fine, unless you are in extreme cold areas.

I have designed several parking garage camera/security systems here in the DC area and Cat6 and POE is how we have done the majority of those. I have only spec'd OSP cable when it has actually been underground, in the garages we spec conduit to the camera j-box, even on the top exposed level.

BTW, I do not do any installation, only design and PM work. Too old for that "stuff"....lol

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

If you are going to have a heater, wiper or other high current draw accessories in the enclosure you will need something larger than 16/2. Having an electrician provide 110VAC to the camera location would be the best bet. Then run video, PTZ and control on fiber. Fiber->TP converters are available for around $70 each end. Not bad for the protection they give your network!

 

[mikeydidit]

Ok I am liking the fiber solution so far. Not to overly complicate this but I am having a problem visually laying out.

Conduit (one for fiber one for electric) to light pole. I think i remember some code restricting high voltage (electric) and low voltage sharing the same pipe anyways. I am seeing some sort of 6x6 weather proof box to hold the fiber converter connected to the 3/4" for the fiber. Does this need power?

What about the Cat ? to the camera? Will this need to be some sort of weather rated patch cable? I guess a rubber grommet out of the 6x6 for the cable to patch the camera?

Just trying to cover all the bases. I am adding a section (CCTV) to my campus cabling spec's and want to get this right.

Thanks Guys.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

You really need to start with the camera.
My preference is a fiber camera when budget is not the issue.

Is the camera capable of accepting fiber directly?
I would not place Cu-OF opto-electronics outside unless it is hardened, then we are no longer talking $70. In addition you would need power for the electronics as well.
This would be my last choice for these reasons. You could easily be talking about 2-300 per camera extra to run fiber.

Does the camera housing have internal heat? What is the power requirement?
Is POE enough over Cat6? Use a 22 or 23 AWG Cat6 for lower resistance.

You would need 2 conduits, unless you can run a large one and use innerduct for the fiber. By code you only need a physical barrier. An additional NEMA box for power and electronics.

I think you get the idea, start with the camera, determine if it will run on POE, I think you will find there are numerous units available that will be just fine without going to a fiber solution for 1, 2 or 3 cameras.




Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

Check with the AHJ but you might be able to run fiber in the same conduit as the AC. After all fiber is non-conductive.

For an outside camera there is usually some sort of enclosure. The enclosure is connected to a weatherproof j-box with flexible liquid tight conduit. The camera, media converter and power supplies all reside in the camera enclosure.

If the cameras are already weatherproof then you could use a suitably sized box to hold the converter and power supplies. Something with a divider that would mount a pair of AC outlets would be ideal. Any cables exposed to the elements need to be outdoor rated.

I would go for a camera enclosure large enough for all the stuff. That way as cameras change you just swap them out.

 

[Servamatic]

You would never want to run fiber with the power conductors without innerduct. Risk of damage is too high.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

You would need 2 conduits, unless you can run a large one and use innerduct for the fiber. By code you only need a physical barrier."

Could you give a code cite?


I don't see any reason for a "hardened" media converter in a camera enclosure. I bet even a $70 media converter is more robust than most IP cameras.

My feeling is that unless this camera is VERY self sufficient electrically and environmentally a camera enclosure is the easy way to handle an outside camera. In that case run AC and put everything in the camera enclosure. You can even get them with little windshield wipers if there is a moisture problem.

If you can get away with POE for a self sufficient camera then go for cat5e. Don't forget to surge suppress the lines when they enter a building. Otherwise I think you will go for single conduit, camera enclosures and fiber.

 

[wires]

You would never want to run fiber with the power conductors without innerduct. Risk of damage is too high."

That is true in many cases. I would not worry about it in this case since the conduit is most likely single purpose and the wire and fiber could be pulled in at the same time.

Fiber is quite a bit tougher than many think. PITA when it breaks but I have seen pulls that would destroy UTP or coax cause absolutely no problem for fiber.

 

[Servamatic]

OFN can run in the same raceway, OFC cannot, look at 770.133
For other communication circuits look at 800.47

So you have determined UTP and POE will not work?

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

UTP will work but like we said only up to a point. Then it will have to be fiber after we get into distance restraints. I think the main thing i was worried about was
1. after i get to the 285' mark
2. power to run the blower motors and heaters.

I spoke with several different cable manufactures technical support and none of them had a cable that has power and cat ?? and it have a Pentium jacket.

The Siamese cable has its own shield on both sides of the cat5 so it would probably work and be up to code. But once i get it back inside, i would have to terminate it. Then cross patch it back to the equipment rooms on regular Cat 5E cable. All this being under 285 feet.

Just sounds like a PITA installation that could be done nicer/neater some other way.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[Servamatic]

BTW, you do have an extra 10' to play with, it's 295'....lol

The neatest and cleanest is POE. How far beyond 295' are you for the worst case?

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[mikeydidit]

At this point, i do not know Richard. This is something they are starting to install here on campus. This one is for a new building but if it takes off like i think it will, they will have me installing this in the parking lots. Its a long ways between some of the lots to a switch.

When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[RikRodgers]

It sounds like the only "one size fits all" solution for you would be fiber, but with all the extra power, additional enclosures, and media converters (an additional point of failure- I try hard to steer away from these for outdoor use.) it would be by far the most expensive solution.

A better bet would be to design a standard POE solution, and a second fiber solution should that not be feasible.