CCNA or MCSE? 1

[missing30]

Hi there everyone.
I'm going to be taking my A+ in a couple of weeks and want to be prepared for the next step as soon as possable. What i'm wondering is what the consensus in this forum is...should i go to ccna or mcse. I've been told that the ccna will help make the mcse easier, although they aren't necessarily related.
appreciate your input in advance.

Jeff

 

[vampirevicky]

No relation between them at all. They are worlds apart , one is an OS , the other is router. Do both or do neither or do any one. Doing one will not help u gain any knowledge of the other. My tip..do the tought one...CCNA. After u do that u wont want to do MCSE.But then again that depends on ur area of work and interest.

Vikram

 

[missing30]

Do you have any personal info on career outlook or working environment, i know this info is availiable elsewhere, but i'm trying to gauge peoples personal preferences

thanks
jeff

 

[vampirevicky]

Personal preference changes person to person. And as per the industry std...you are going to me more sought after being a ccna than an mcse, simply because of demand and supply. The ccna is a very high std exam..there are lots of n/w engs required and fewer ccna's, still fewer ccnp's and still fewer ccie's. In the MSCE track there are lots of system admin jobs, but there a lots of mcse's too. Difference in the way they test u. You can judge that from passmarks of 849 required out of 1000. Difference in the material to master and test taking method. And i guess if u go up to ccie then u get paid big bucks. But then it is tough getting there, very very very tough. I may get a lot of brickbats from MCSE's , no offence to any MCSE out there. Correct me if I am wrong.

Ps know wat cisco keeps upgrading the exam ...ccna to be upgraded this sept.

Vikram

 

[missing30]

Thanks alot for the straight up answers, vikram.

j.

 

[MattWray]

Saying that they are not related is not exactly correct. There are TCP/IP questions on some of the MCSE exams that had to do with subnetting and routing. The CCNA helped with the MCSE, but not the same for vice versa.
I had my CCNA for a year and a half before I got my MCSE and I definitely think it made the MCSE easier.
I think it is good to have both. Cisco gives you the understanding of routing, TCP/IP, and transmission. MCSE gives you the most common OS. But I stress, this is if you actually LEARN the material. Don't do it just to get a cert, there are too many of those out there giving those of us that are legit a bad name....

Thanks,

Matt Wray
MCSE, MCSA, MCP, CCNA

http://www.sss-steel.com

 

[vampirevicky]

Matt,

First off, When I say they are not related...I am talking subject point of view they are diferent, job profile point of view they are different, here I am not talking about some few subnetting questions which are common to both certs.I am not in agreement with your conept. Just becoz there are subnetting questions in MCSE does not neccessarily mean that the "CCNA helps MCSE, so they are related " view holds water. Subnetting can be just as well learned in its own right. Requires some dedicated hours of study, that's all, not one whole syllabus of CCNA. May be for subnetting even refer to the ccna books, but do ccna so that its easy for mcse !!! that doesnt seem the most proficient form of effort expenditure. Do MCSE, CCNA..both, good for the guy who does it no doubt, but dont do a cert just to cover a minuscule part of some other cert. Its like shooting down a fly with a cannonball. Wise effort expenditure is the key.

If the guy is gearing up for a sys admin job profile (windows platform)put some effort in mcse rather than spend 2 times the effort but if gearing up for n/wing then CCNA and if you have the time and the interest and want a more well rounded competency in the server room ,do both by all means.

Vikram
SAP BASIS R3\TIVOLI\IBM AIX Administrator, CCNA

 

[MattWray]

I think you mistook what I was meaning.
His question was, would the CCNA help with the MCSE? My answer was yes, because for me it did. I agree, taking the CCNA only to try and pass the MCSE is not a good choice, to say the least.
I meant that they are not related exactly. But there is an overlap, be it only one way. MCSE covers mostly OS, but there is general TCP/IP knowledge needed and if you've already tackled the CCNA, your understanding of those topics is more than enough for the MS questions.
Now what his thinking was about the question, I don't know. I wouldn't suggest to someone to take the CCNA to try and make the MCSE easier. Like you said, that is overkill. But in my job as a Network Admin, I take care of all our routers, phone systems, as well as the regular old MS stuff. The MS books cover mostly just the OS, where Cisco gives a broader range of knowledge of networking in general.
I started out going with Cisco because I worked for a CLEC using Cisco. In the end, I am glad I started with it because I think it gave me a better base to stand on than anything else could have.
I can only take from my perspective, and this is it.


Thanks,

Matt Wray
MCSE, MCSA, MCP, CCNA

http://www.sss-steel.com

 

[hAkron]

A solid understanding of networking will help with both the MCSE and the CCNA. The CCNA is one test, MCSE is 6 (or it was when I took it). Having both will certinly round out your knowledge. The low level MCSE tests (Win2k Pro/XP Pro, etc.) are going to be a lot easier than the entry level Cisco CCNA/CCDA. Starting with the eaiser Microsoft track will help you to sharpen your test taking skills. Go for both. Take one or two of the MS tests, then take the CCNA, then go back and finish off the MS tests. With reasonable access to the equipment and study material, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to knock out one test a month.

 

[twilliamsen]

I don't know what your background is, but both certifications are difficult for beginners in the networking industry.

MCSE is tougher now than the NT 4.0 track, and to add on top of it, its now 7 tests, not 6 like it was.

CCNA is even tougher with you need to think, use your math brain.

Personally I have MCSE in NT 4.0 and CNE in Novell 4.11(ok, keep your comments to yourself) both are expired, but to an employer it counts. I also just obtained an MCP in WIndows 2000 Professional and will be sitting for the CCNA on September 26th.

The CCNA is tough, and Cisco is making sure you know your stuff before diving in. I would highly recommend that if you decide to take the CCNA, that you get hands on training, and not a boot-camp type environment, more like an 8 week course, because there is a lot of things you need to know!

Me personally I took a 5-day course on it, and no way was I ready for the CCNA. I come from more of a server side environment where I don't touch routers. But now I want it so I can open up another avenue as far as learning. I will sit for the CCNA and hopefully pass, then I will finish my MCSE in Windows 2000 if I feel that it will fit. Also, employers look more at experience than certifications, but depends on the employer. If you would like to work for a consulting company, they want those certs because then it give them better status with the vendors like Cisco or Microsoft since they need certain amount of certified hands on staff.

That's my $.02

 

[MattWray]

I agree, except I'd say even longer than 8 weeks would be needed. I attended the Cisco Networking Academy for 10 months, plus used Cisco routers at my job, and I found the test extremely difficult still....

Thanks,

Matt Wray
MCSE, MCSA, MCP, CCNA

http://www.sss-steel.com

 

[schwefel]

I just took the new CCNA (640-801). I don't know if I got luck on the questions picked from the pool, but I thought it was EXTREMELY easy. Not to say I did not need to study at all, but the practice exam I got from Boson was a lot more difficult than the actual exam.

From my perspective, I'd say the CCNA is not that hard. I plan on having my CCNP by the end of the year, so I will see how those compare.

Jason