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CCNA Exam Frustrations... 3

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Apr 8, 2008
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CA
I passed my first CCNA in 2001, scoring in the high 900's, if I remember right. That was after going through the Cisco curriculum at the local college. Well, I took the Cert exam again today (it expired a while back) and I failed miserably.

I was more than a little irritated by this, as I'm currently in the middle of the CCNP coursework and I've been maintaining a 4.0 gpa. I figured I'd share my experience and hopefully have a few questions answered in the mean time...

my main question is... is there any way to skip a question and return to it later? The 'previous' button at the bottom of the page was ghosted out for me and so I assumed I was unable to leave the hard questions for later. As you're about to read, this caused me a whole lot of unnecessary stress.

in the first 15 questions, I think about 4 were labs and most others were focused on either frame relay or NAT... two areas that aren't exactly a forte of mine. My 11th question was, in a word, ridiculous. it was a sim question that looked like a collage put together by a kindergardner. It requires you to drag and drop network devices, links, and IP addresses into slots on the graphic, and then configure interfaces of the devices you place.

Had they just said "subnet these routers with this /28 and make it all pingable" it would have been no problem at all. 3 paragraphs worth of instruction did not make it any clearer, either, but only made the situation more frustrating.

The worst part were the arrows pointing from interfaces with IP's specified... after spending 10 minutes on this question I realized the numbers were not assigned to the interfaces they pointed from, but rather the far end interfaces... Of the provided drag-and-drop Ip's, none of them fell into the same /28 subnet. I ended up spending over 20 minutes on this one particular question... all because I had no idea how much it was worth and it seemed I would not be able to go back and answer it after attending to the easy questions.

This really made me mad because I've been through 1.5 years worth of cisco curriculum and I've never come across any question like this one. the format, the combination of drag/drop/configure, the required tasks themselves... it was completely foreign to me.

By this time, something else had occurred to me. I was on question 11, having already gone through 3 simulation questions...spending 5-20 minutes on each... as far as I knew I still had another 41 simulation questions to look forward to! At this point I only had about 30 minutes left and every time i looked at the clock, the subnet calculations I had written down all turned into meaningless jarble in my head.

I finally moved past the nightmare question, right or wrong, then was asked to configure NAT from memory on a router interface. What I'd like to know is how many CCNA jobs out there require you to know this? How many CCNP jobs, even? I know how to access information to do this but for crying out loud... from memory? dynamic NAT? Seemed a bit unnecessarily evil, to me.

So, the test sorta blurred at that point as I was trying to get through questions as quickly as possible after struggling through all the simulations. My nerves were a wreck, my patience was frayed, and I was furious because I knew I was going to fail. Answering endless sim questions seemed entirely futile.

Fortunately the latter half was a downhill slide, but even so, I think I was only on question 32 when I hit the 2 minute mark. THen I started guessing to get through it.

I ended with a 695. less than 15 points shy... There's no doubt in my mind had I been given another 15 minutes I would have passed. The last 20 or 30 questions were all multiple choice with maybe 1 nobrainer drag-and-drop. The ones I only needed 30 seconds to answer all came up after I had already run out of time.

I can't help but feel like I was cheated out of $150 with this exam. The only thing it tested was my ability to not suffer from a stress-related heart attack while trying to translate some sadist's idea of a good exam question.


So, here are my primary complaints about this CCNA exam:

1. the exam should start off with a brief description of how many questions of each variety you can expect and possibly even how much each type of question is worth.
2. simulations should be at the end of the exam
3. we should have the ability to go back to answer the tough ones later. Unless I'm stupid and just couldn't figure it out.
4. sim topology maps should make sense without having to compare 3 different router configs. Or at least the documented instructions should clarify the graphic...

Okay, I'll stop whining now. Of course I'm just mad right now and feel stupid for failing this exam. Had I not taken the 5 minutes to do the exam tutorial it's possible I could have gotten a passing grade that way, too.
 
maczen,

I agree with Burt about the IOSs!

This was always a big point of arguement with Cisco and the Net Acads, many Acads were getting by with 600s, 800s, 1700s, 2500s and whatever they could get their hands on!

In 1999 we bought (the Net Acad/college) about $75,000 in 2600s, IOSs, WICs, Smart cables, and 1900s from a local Cisco reseller - with Smartnets on EVERYTHING - as Cisco wanted it and all by the book as if we were in production to setup the next Google :)

Cisco made out like a bandit because with all those Smartnets we made 1 call to support in the past 10 years! Schools DO NOT need 24/7 support and Fedex Nextday parts -I mean the hands-on student training area - not the college infastructure - the infastructure needs the Smartnets just like any other biz that needs 99.99% uptime would.

Cisco just did not get it - you would be surprized by the deals that we get from Microsoft and other companies that understand it is in their best interest to get the students "hooked" on the product while in college so they use it when they go out in the real world!

I will not even go into the number of old routers that used to get "drilled" each year by Cisco so that they do not end up on eBay - I guess they got some slack because they do seem to have an "used" market now - but how nice it would be if that stuff was given to Network Acads - they could have super labs turning out killer CCNAs with massive amounts of hands-on training! The only people who go "free" stuff was 3rd world areas and very low income areas - I will tell you most schools no matter how large "get by" on some of the oldest stuff around! Some classes feel like "Tech History 101" :)

That being said - if it is being used in a test lab and not being used to run your ISP, then IOSs found on the Internet or eBay will do fine - legally - like Burt said you can buy a Smartnet and then you can download the IOS from Cisco everytime they change something!

I had this discussion with a student who was trying to start a security biz several years ago and wanted to buy Cisco PIX firewalls on eBay - showed him where software does not transfer with the hardware. That did not even discuss how do you setup a firewall that you can not do updates on :-( He was not happy until I told him to look into a Linux solution with IP Cop or something like that!

Check the eBay auctions and try to get items that have the IOS you need on at least 1 of them.

I will be out looking also - just won a Cisco 2951XM for $200 with a 12.1 or 12.2 IOS.

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 

I said "I will be out looking also - just won a Cisco 2951XM for $200 with a 12.1 or 12.2 IOS. I won a Cisco 2651XM router - I do not think Cisco has a 2951XM :)

Sorry!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
Thanks Guys,
I took a peek at IOSHunter.. Have to buy to get the 12.4 IOS's... $60 but will do so if need be... Called Cisco at 1-800-553-2447... Spoke to a rep who informed me that I could buy a 6 month contract that would allow me access to one IOS upgrade for $5... This is after I explained that I purchased a used router for CCNA purposes and wanted to upgrade to 12.4 etc... He said that I should call the aforementioned number during normal business hours to set this up with a Sales Rep... HAVE NOT VERIFIED THIS AND SERIOUSLY DOUBT THIS TO BE THE CASE!!! OK, had to get that out before I got laughed out of the forum! LoL... I will give them a call Monday and let you guys know what the verdict is! I am however crossing my fingers but the IOS Hunter may still be a better option when I reach the CCNP level at which point the IOS's may change more frequently from IP to Plus to Firewall/IDS etc.. depending on the exam... (I'm not sure yet)! Worst case scenario.. I may just purchase 1 more 3640 and make sure that that one does indeed have a copy of 12.4 that is compatible with the 64/16 3640 like c3640-i-mz.124-5a.bin..

Thanks for everything guys!
 
1. The only Cisco exams that let you mark questions and move back are CCIE level.
2. Cisco exams are NOT adaptive. You will have to answer all the exam questions all the time.
3. With the newer IOSes being huge (32MB and up) you may find your tftp servers won't support their transfers (transfers choke above 16MB). 3CDaemon does and some of the newer tftp servers do, too. FTP works all the time so practice using FTP with large IOS files for image upgrades.
4. For CCNA a cheap ("obsolete") router will let you get proficient with most configuration topics. The main goal is knowing how to use IOS. 12.0 and above is adequate. You only need the newer devices for SDM and new features like the "do" command.
 
maczen,

Please post the results no matter what - never know when Cisco has some crazy deal - doubt it is $5 :-( but they might have some student deal they have not told us about :)



E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
Will do CiscoGuy!
I thought that the DO command must be new.. Was wondering why it did not work on the 2600 when I first got it...

By the way.. CiscoGuy.. How is your old student doing? The one that started the security company? Did that turn out well for him?
 
maczen,

No - it was short lived, he was into a lot of other things! He had a great non-technology full-time job and this was "part-time"!

Security is not something that you can do for hire and be part-time/half assed about it and on a budget - then not expect to get sued!! Not when you are holding yourself out as a pro!!!

Making a lab with an old PIX, CAT 1912 or 2500 routers is one thing - trying to use these in these days of Fast Ethernet and Gig Ethernet for a current business solution is very hard to stand behind except for the poorest of companies - and if they have no money for technology - I know they have no money to pay for a CCNA/CCNP/CCSP!!!


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
Security is the field that I ultimately want to reach but I am a long way from there at the moment! See my TFTP issue post.. LoL And I definitely don't want to freelance!

I am about to take the Net+ after the other half of the CCNA and was somewhat considering the Security+ while self-studying for CCNP!
 
maczen,

Get your certs as you can - they can never hurt and as someone here said - you will ALWAYS be studing something!

Just do not hold yourself out as a security pro until you are !!!

I am working on a second version of a hacking CD I put together for my classes 2 years ago - so much to know and just not enough time in the day sometimes!

I think that my student above just saw the $$$$ that CAN be made until I brought him back to reality of things. The student had said that the business could not afford any more of a solution - I told him then they were not ready to go on the internet and put customers at risk! I said if the business starts telling customers it is safe because they paid a Cisco guy to make it safe ...... you see where that was going!

At least with the Linux/IP Cop solution it was free and it can be updated and I have seen IP Cop used as a small business solution in several security mags! Once again - got to spend some time with the solution and learn it before you deploy it - he was not willing to pay all the dues :-(

Security guys get paid a lot because they can - but you can not fake it - someone will hack that network and then you will look pretty stupid if you did not know what you were doing in the first place!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
CiscoGuy33
I definitely understand that! I have quite a ways to go before going pro.. LoL (Just spent 2 and a half hours trying to correct an ID10T issue! Mine!!!) Mostly reading though...

What sort of hacking CD is that that you put together? I know that CBTNuggets has a video out for C|EH (Certified Ethical Hacker)... I thought about buying it... (After I finish spending billions on my Cisco lab that is.. LoL)

I will post my lab for you to take a peek at when I get it all up and running... Need some NM's, WIC's, and cables now though! The two 3640's that I just bought are completely bare and only have the two ethernet ports on the other two. I should have a decent lab in about a month or so. But it will get better!

I was jealous! The guy I bought these two routers from had a SWEET setup! His rack was taller than me and full! Plus he had a 3550!

Alright.. Later All! Got some reading to do!
 
maczen,

I went on eBay once and saw a bunch of hacking CDs for sale - one had a list of the stuff on the CD so I started to "Google" it - low and behold I found about 98% of the articles (and most were older then dirt). I will not take anything away from those on eBay - you have to consider your time and effort vs the $15 or so they charge for "them" doing all the work!

I saved all the articles - PDFs, DOCs, HTML pages etc. and put them all together in a one place and then made a local web page linking them for easy refrence - I moved all this on a CD. Like I said I am updating it to vesion 2.0 right now - maybe I will put it on eBay -maybe I will just give them out - PLEASE DO NOT ASK - IF AND WHEN THEY ARE READY I WILL SAY SOMETHING!

I have done the same for Cisco stuff over the years - I do HTML so when I find something - I save it to my Cisco folder and then I add a link and discription in the right area on my local "Cisco web page" - this stuff also includes web content I got from the Cisco Net Acad - the "cisco" folder has 198,140 files in 115,847 folders for over 2.70 GB of stuff - lots is old - I date everything so I know what is older.

I have also bought stuff on eBay - got 5 CDs of Cisco stuff several years ago (most of it was copyrighted) but I got just about every Cisco book on PDF as well as a bunch of other stuff - paid about $100 - guy had just passed his CCIE and was cleaning out the old! It was worth it then - now the stuff is 5-10 years old.


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
maczen,

With 4 3640s you will have a nice lab!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
Maczen,

Yes, security issues abound with various tftp servers. That is why the old Cisco tftp server is no longer available although I've seen several production networks using it. For a lab environment for CCNA (isn't that what we're discussing?) 3Cdaemon is a great tool to practice tftp/ftp/syslog. I like pumpKIN, too. Free tools are always good for practice.
 
Cluebird,
Thanks.. I just wanted to point it out to you since it was the first thing that popped up when I searched 3C..

CiscoGuy33,
That is awesome! I have noticed the same for the Security+ as well as the majority of the content for the C|EH... The book that the Sec+ class at my school is currently using was copyrighted 2003... And the C|EH appears to cover some (almost ancient) utilities but I have not looked very far into security yet as I am still attempting to grasp the basics of networking!

I like what you are doing linking everything together with your own "localized" website! You may setup a webserver and vpn on one of your routers.. That combined with the "power on" functionality of those master switches and a "wake on lan" utility on the server/pc and you could access that thing from anywhere! Would be pretty cool.. I have been looking at a similar setup... Found some Dell Edge Blades spec'ed pretty nice for under $300! Would fit in the rack and would definitely be convenient for some of the labs.. (ping.. ACL's, etc... )

Very happy to hear your comment on the 3640's.. My main goal was to NOT buy anything useless or to overspend! Spent $385 total for four 3640's (two with NM's but missing face plates)... Spent another $100 on a 2610 (I had to do this! I wanted at least one router with 2600 on the front! LoL Big fan of the magazine!) but I know that that money could have been better allocated!

This brings me to my next question.. For a CCNP lab.. Do you think that I could get away with buying three 2924XL's (Less than $100 total) or should I go ahead and start buying the 2950's one at a time! If I do it this way it will happen after I buy my NM's, WIC's and cables...

Thanks again for everything!
 
maczen,

You said - "This brings me to my next question.. For a CCNP lab.." It is GREAT you are thinking ahead but you can also out think yourself!

By the time you are done with CCNA and the first CCNP exam (which most do the routing 1st) you might find the switches you need are different or the ones you did not think you could get are cheaper!

Get the 3 2924XLs for less then $100 - get your CCNA, get the first CCNP (routing) then see what you need at that time. Things change SO FAST in technology!!

I saw a few 2950s on both eBay and Craig's List for $100 but I still need to do A LOT of reading on the IOSs that can be put on the DIFFERENT 2950s out there - some sell for $100 and some sell for $400 - Hey Burt learn me somethin' on them 2950 switches and the different prices for what I think are "G" and "T" models!

Thanks in advance!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +
 
By the way... Called Cisco today and spoke to them about upgrading the IOS... They said that that is not a possibility but the guy that I spoke to at Pre-Sales did say that he believes that students receive a pretty nice discount on Cisco products through resellers. Will let you know what I find!
 
I don't trust Cisco Sales guys any farther than I can throw them. Then again, I have been known to throw humans fairly far...I think vultures are actually lighter than humans...

Burt
 
Ciscoguy33,
Thanks for the advice... Makes since! I did just what you said.. Found a lot of three 2924's for $36... LoL

Burtbees,
What is the primary difference between the 2950T and the 2950G switches and also curious about the prices... CiscoG peeked my curiosity...
 
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