Cat5 "bundle" cable?

[jpm121]

Hi all,

I'm looking for info on a cable I saw a while ago that was basically 10 or 20 cat5 8-pair cables all bundled inside an external housing. Can't remember if it was gel-filled or not.

We're wanting to hook a small building to a "main" building and be able to run power over Ethernet for the phones -- that's my main concern in keeping each 8-pair separate, and why fiber isn't an option for us.

I'd appreciate any ideas... thanks!

 

[AvayaNovice]

I'm assuming these are IP phones, yeah (at least when you say power over ethernet, that's what I assume).

If so...

I don't know of a cable with individual cables inside of it, but I know that Essex makes 25 pair CAT-5e cable. I think that would be sufficient?

If not, they make a cable that can be 2-7 Cat-5e cables, but it doesn't have a sheath over the whole thing, it has a webbing kind of.

They also make an OSP version of that 25 pair Cat-5e. It is gel filled.

Check out their cable catalog here:

http://www2.superioressex.com/catalogs/premises_cpr.pdf

Should show you what you need.

Nick

 

[jeffmoss26]

Hitachi Cable Manchester makes a cable with several Cat5e 4 pair cables, all covered with a PVC or Plenum jacket.
I think what Superior Essex makes has speedwrap as the jacket. It sort of binds all the cables together.

http://www.hcm.hitachi.com/Premise/PWSpecialtyCable.htm

jeff moss

 

[jpm121]

Ah, excellent. Thanks for the responses.

 

[lopes1211]

Why not use fiber and put a powered switch it the remote building? You should not run any cabling between buildings without the proper ground/fuse equipent and I'm not aware of any cat-5 fuse equipment. Fiber seems like a more flexible solution.

-CL

 

[jpm121]

Chiefly because it's the driving range shop at a golf course with 2 IP phones and 2 PCs, and is only open 8 months per year. We can't justify $3000 for another 24-port powered 3550, plus fiber costs.

There's a 3" conduit that's already trenched and connecting the buildings together. If we can use POE for the phones, that would be ideal. If not we'll install cubes out there.

 

[AvayaNovice]

He is right on the grounding issue. But if you're going through conduit, I'd say the risk is less. The link I provided you with does have some OSP cat-5 cabling that's bundled, I'd use that over IW cat5.

 

[buitenhek]

A pet-peave of mine: cost justification of doing the job right the first time. A Car Lube place in San Diego had 4 years of computer problems (Lube bay and alignment center were in different buildings). We were called in and found a transient ground loop between buildings was blowing computer cards randomly.

For best results follow the above expert recommendations and at a minimum properly install & ground at least your main building cabling entry point.

Peter Buitenhek
Profit Developer.com

 

[RandyVSP]

Cost justification is the reason for mny of my headaches....

Another option for no more than your needing...try individual runs, just get "underground" rated cable. Ive dont that and it has worked well, and even made the bean counters happy!

Maybe even run a single run of # 10 or even larger to tie the grounds together,plus grounds rods at both ends, and add surge supressors to BOTH ends...can you tell I get alot of lightning hits????

Randy

 

[jpm121]

I'm thinking the individual underground runs (properly grounded) may be the way to go, Randy. Thanks.

 

[Bobg1]

Hmmm, a poster wrote
"He is right on the grounding issue. But if you're going through conduit, I'd say the risk is less"

NOT, especially if it's PVC

 

[AvayaNovice]

Care to explain that?

If it's sealed, and going through PVC conduit... then I'd say the risk for carrying any type of charge is going to be less.

 

[franklin97355]

PVC means nothing to the voltages we are talking about with lightning. I've seen six foot long fused glass tracks where lightning hit sand.

 

[AvayaNovice]

I'm sorry, I just can't see the risk here.

I've seen hundreds of installations with PVC conduit running between two buildings with IW pulled through and zero protection.

 

[skip555]

I'm sorry, I just can't see the risk here.



what part of the country are you in ?

 

[daronwilson]

If it leaves or enters the building, generally, it should be protected. Primary protection to prevent outside lethal electricity from entering the building on it, and Secondary protection to protect the electronic equipment connected to it. I can think of no way that PVC is going to protect from lighting, and if you put IW in it around here (near the coast) it will usually get water in it anyway, so you'll be back.

I think you can look at many of these answers as the ole Sears catalog looked at products: Good, Better, Best. Sure you could install IW (which stands for Inside Wire oddly enough) outside in conduit, you could install BDW (buried drop wire) that has a shield (which gets grounded) and is gel filled to keep water out, or you could avoid the copper if neither of these fit the bill and put in fiber with a non-conductive jacket.

I honestly think it is up to us here to provide the folks a variety of solutions. It is up to us to tell them how to solve their problem accurately and safely. While the choice of IW or BDW for underground is up to the installer and customer, if we at least provide them with the various options and the pros/cons for those options, they can make an informed decision.

While you could obviously get by with IW pulled in dry conduit for some time, depending on where you are, this may be an illegal installation (it would be here), and could certainly put the customer and the equipment at risk.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Well, my point with saying that IW is an acceptable solution relates to the original poster's claim that he wants to keep this cheap.

I wasn't saying that IW should be pulled. I was saying that it's been done, and I live on the coast as well, and too have seen it get infested with water and what have you, and we've had to play around switching pairs, or pulling in new cable.

Most of the work I have done has been outside plant. And... we've ran IW for temporary solutions many times (when I say temporary, I mean for up to a year). Is it the best, correct, or legal choice? Of course not. I'm just saying it can be done.

But then again, everyone needs to remember that we're pulling Cat-5e from one building to another, which isn't even the proper solution in the first place.

This should be done with fiber and uplinked between two switches. But that's not the case.

So... IW can do it.

PVC doesn't provide more protection. PVC provides less likelyhood... that's all I'm saying.

Good points from everyone, I just want to make it clear that I didn't just get off the boat -- I'm trying to tailor my response to the situation.

Good point from DW on the good better best. IW isn't even good. Good... would probably be outdoor rated Cat-5 that has a PIC filling. I don't know if they make a Cat-5 with a shield, if so -- that would probably be a better solution, as you can ground the shield (which provides the majority of human protection). And the best solution... would be fiber... or if they make some type of an entrance protector that is Cat-5 rated (which I've never heard of).

So there's my take on the whole deal.

 

[jpm121]

Wow, this thread certainly spiraled into a tailspin.

Just for the record, I was looking for options that would support powered ethernet to plug in a few Cisco phones with a couple PCs.

Why on earth would I spend big money on fiber when I can slap power cubes on the phones, and use a couple wireless access points to bridge between buildings?

For those of you who provided alternatives, I appreciate it.

 

[AvayaNovice]

Agreed JPM. That's why I was trying to come up with things that would work, might not be the best solution, but would work.

 

[Bobg1]

Avayanovice
All though you are trying to assist with solutions that may work. Some of these will probably not meet code. Almost anywhere things will need to meet the NFPA code as a minimum. In a lot of areas state and local codes are even stiffer.
As for the coduit and grounding, even with cables in a steel conduit they are still susceptible to lighting strikes that is why the cabling should be properly protected.