Ryda85
MIS
- Jun 18, 2009
- 4
Just wondering if any of you still use cat3 for voice aplications.
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Cat3 useless?
- Thread starter Ryda85
- Start date
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Last I checked, my cost was half for cat3 vs cat5e cable and about 25% less for jacks which adds up for 2 voice jacks per cable. I think that when cat3 is "useless" cat8 will be out by then. I do more engineering and large installs and only cable new buildings to appease customers (not because I like doing cabling) but if we were to cable cat5e voice "with a service loop" just waiting for the day to say we saved you all this money 5, 8, 10 years later......I just don't think that is realistic. i think you could sell that to a customer but I doubt technology will play out like that (but we're all just guessing right).
My best guess - cat 3 voice dies 5 to 10 years from now if ever. The lifespan will probably be about the same as when cat5E/cat6 dies for data. The solution 5 to 10 years away may be to:
1. abandon the cat3 voice already in place.
2. then use the existing cat6 for 1GB VOIP/Video
3. then pull new cat8 for the 100GB data
If technology continues the way it had been going, maybe a single strand of fiber will be here in 5-10 years and cat3/5/6/8 is all useless. I don't see any definite migration paths outlined to justify adding any expense to cabling cat3 for voice.
-CL
My best guess - cat 3 voice dies 5 to 10 years from now if ever. The lifespan will probably be about the same as when cat5E/cat6 dies for data. The solution 5 to 10 years away may be to:
1. abandon the cat3 voice already in place.
2. then use the existing cat6 for 1GB VOIP/Video
3. then pull new cat8 for the 100GB data
If technology continues the way it had been going, maybe a single strand of fiber will be here in 5-10 years and cat3/5/6/8 is all useless. I don't see any definite migration paths outlined to justify adding any expense to cabling cat3 for voice.
-CL
OMG the Cat 3 vs. Cat 5e debate again!
If it's PLENUM, then I use 3 for voice based on cost. If it's PVC, then it's all 5e. I have not bought or sold any Cat3 PVC in at least 3 years, although the great "I need black cable from China" experience fell flat on its butt when I read the sheath. (200 MHz cable).
Next up: The 66 vs 110 argument.
LkEErie
If it's PLENUM, then I use 3 for voice based on cost. If it's PVC, then it's all 5e. I have not bought or sold any Cat3 PVC in at least 3 years, although the great "I need black cable from China" experience fell flat on its butt when I read the sheath. (200 MHz cable).
Next up: The 66 vs 110 argument.
LkEErie
![[hammer]](/data/assets/smilies/hammer.gif "[hammer] [hammer]")
![[wink]](/data/assets/smilies/wink.gif "[wink] [wink]")
Just in case
Save some time here. BTW, where's the dead horse emoticon from the other board when you need it?
LkEErie
Save some time here. BTW, where's the dead horse emoticon from the other board when you need it?
LkEErie
How long will Cat 3 be around? Who knows? The cable companys use coax to send the TV signal to your house but the telephone company up here started selling TV service comming to your home on just ordinary telephone cable on top of your telephone and with the DSL. Probably not even Cat 3.
I know the 66/110 debate is an ongoing joke in this forum but did I miss a cat3/cat6 debate in the last 6/12 months? If there is one, post the link and the poster will probably find the answers he/she asked for. I may have missed it so seriously take no offense. Are there releavent links for this poster about pulling different cable types that can be added? Posting links like "cat3 vs cat6 sounds so much like 66 vs 110 vs bix or butter vs margarine, here's some links about butter" probably isn't helping anyone coming here for help on cat 3 cabling in a "cabling forum". Just saying, lets keep things on topic, that's all.
-CL
-CL
mikeydidit
IS-IT--Management
I think I am a lot like you guys in the fact that I will sell you what ever you want. So if the customer wants Cat5 6,7, oh yeah, but heres what it is going to cost you.
I am still paying about 1/3rd the cost for cat 3 for voice vs. Cat 5E for data. If one day someone tells me to install all Cat whatever for voice and data, then I'll be paid to do it.
But if you install Cat? for voice and data then the voice drops should also be terminated on patch panels. (This of course is if you have room to place a rack.) Now your cost has went up on the install from $5.00 for a 66 block to $100.00 for a patch panel. Thats $95.00 per 24 (Not 25) cables. Oh but wait. Now instead of having a $20.00 back board to install 400 pair now you need another $120.00 7' relay rack to install the patch panels on.
But this is all done for future proofing? No such thing in our business. We have all installed how many types of data cables?? But it was the newest, latest, greatest and would last forever. Guess not.
So i think it all boils down to
1. Give the customer what they want. You will get paid to "Future proof" their infrastructure.
2. If you have any ideas that VoIP will be the best thing since dial tone, they yes install data cables for voice.
3. Install what makes since for your application. Everyones is different.
Now did I hear someone mention 66 blocks??![[shadeshappy]](/data/assets/smilies/shadeshappy.gif "[shadeshappy] [shadeshappy]")
When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?
For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594
I am still paying about 1/3rd the cost for cat 3 for voice vs. Cat 5E for data. If one day someone tells me to install all Cat whatever for voice and data, then I'll be paid to do it.
But if you install Cat? for voice and data then the voice drops should also be terminated on patch panels. (This of course is if you have room to place a rack.) Now your cost has went up on the install from $5.00 for a 66 block to $100.00 for a patch panel. Thats $95.00 per 24 (Not 25) cables. Oh but wait. Now instead of having a $20.00 back board to install 400 pair now you need another $120.00 7' relay rack to install the patch panels on.
But this is all done for future proofing? No such thing in our business. We have all installed how many types of data cables?? But it was the newest, latest, greatest and would last forever. Guess not.
So i think it all boils down to
1. Give the customer what they want. You will get paid to "Future proof" their infrastructure.
2. If you have any ideas that VoIP will be the best thing since dial tone, they yes install data cables for voice.
3. Install what makes since for your application. Everyones is different.
Now did I hear someone mention 66 blocks??
When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?
For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594
I have very few customers who tell me what they want .
they ask for a quote for voice and data and I provide one and do the work
i will certainly do whatever is requested but I will also provide my opinion
I have no intention of changing my voice cabling to anything other than CAT 3 unless the customer insists on something else in which case I am happy to provide it with the appropriate up charge in materials and labor
they ask for a quote for voice and data and I provide one and do the work
i will certainly do whatever is requested but I will also provide my opinion
I have no intention of changing my voice cabling to anything other than CAT 3 unless the customer insists on something else in which case I am happy to provide it with the appropriate up charge in materials and labor
Why is then when a VOIP company is going to lose the bid ,because the company has decide to stick with their existing system,and cable .because they do not want to upgrade to cat 5 or 6 cable for voice , the cat 3 is good enough to use for the VO(lan)P
So what is wrong with the cat 3 now and the 66 block
So what is wrong with the cat 3 now and the 66 block
Infinity306
IS-IT--Management
Apples and oranges, VOIP/ANALOG phone cabling.. if they want to use VOIP probaly better to go with Cat5 but to install lines that will be ANALOG only for the near future, not much reason to go above CAT3..
Not to muddy the waters and set off a storm of 'nays' but CAT3 cable wasn't designed for analog voice. It was designed for 10Mbit/s data. Additionally it is still recognized as standard cabling by EIA/TIA (CAT5 isn't) and, as cvrbob says, is plenty robust enough for VoIP on a LAN. You can even do PoE with it.
If I still worked with cable I'd be pulling CAT3. Who wants to pay for 100 or 200 pair CAT5e riser cables anyway?
On a related note and since we're discussing acceptable VoIP cable: assuming at least some folks still don't have fiber into your building from the service provider, what do you think that VoIP is traveling out of your building to your WAN on? If it is even up to the CAT3 standard I would be astounded.
If I still worked with cable I'd be pulling CAT3. Who wants to pay for 100 or 200 pair CAT5e riser cables anyway?
On a related note and since we're discussing acceptable VoIP cable: assuming at least some folks still don't have fiber into your building from the service provider, what do you think that VoIP is traveling out of your building to your WAN on? If it is even up to the CAT3 standard I would be astounded.
Infinity306
IS-IT--Management
Until Cat3 is no longer recognised by TIA/EIA, It's not obsolete.. Also, I don't beleive there are any RJ11 wires that even pass Cat3 so....
Infinity306
IS-IT--Management
ok maybe I should have just said phone lines using RJ11 to differentiate from ethernet cable...
ya know, These
ya know, These
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