Can't move points in Illustrator using Transform Palette

[BigRedX]

Sorry if this has come up before but I couldn't find anything that related exactly to my problem.

I have a cutter guide that was produced on a PC CAD program (don't know which one) and saved as a .AI file. When I open it in Illustrator (any version from 8 to 10), there is a path which cannot be edited by typing values into the transform palette. All the other objects in the document are fine just this one path. When I select a point on this path and try to move it by typing new co-ordinates in the transform palette one of two things happen; either the point doesn't move (the values revert to what they were originally when I press either Tab or Return) or the point moves but so do 6 or so other UNSELECTED points elsewhere on the path. I can move the points manually using the arrow tool but I need to move them acurately so this isn't really an option. The path is not locked, grouped a mask or a compound path. Coping the path into a new layer, new document does not change its behaviour. Saving the document as an older version doesn't affect the path either. I've tried exporting into Quark, Photoshop, Acrobat, Freehand and printing to file as a .PS file and then exporting back to Illustrator all with no change to how the path behaves. The problem is only with a single path - the others in the document are all OK and any new paths I create are fine too.

Has anyone come across this before? And if so why is it happening and how can I make the path editable in the normal way?

 

[askIllustrator]

If its a simple path, delete it and rebuild it. Otherwise make sure their are no overlapping points (two points right on top of each other) and make sure the path is not part of a compound path or mask. A quick way to check is unlock and unhide everything, select all and hit ctrl+alt+7 to release all masks and ctrl+alt+8 to release all compound paths.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

 

[tomatej]

try some point editor, forexample the one that comes with KPT vector effects 1.5 plug-in.
BTW arrow tool is a very accurate tool, you just have to setup your desired keybord increment in preferences.

...don't take it too seriously

 

[BigRedX]

Thanks for the tips - I've already sorted out my own work around and got the job done but it took over 4 times longer than it should. The path in question was quite complex (176 points) but composed entirely out of straight lines. What I'm trying to do now is find out why the path is behaving like it does, and how I can stop it from doing that. My next plan is to rebuild it exactly from scratch and then open both documents in a text editor to compare them. Any PostScript gurus out there who can tell me what to look for?

 

[askIllustrator]

There is no reason the points should be behaving that way. Try copying all the art into a new document and save that as a .ai file. If that wont work you may need a reinstall of ai.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

 

[BigRedX]

There is nothing wrong with Illustrator. All previously created paths work normally and so do all new paths I create including those in the same document as the problem path. I have opened this document up on 4 different Macs at work running Illustrator versions from 8 to 10 all with the same results. I emailed the document to someone else and he discovered exactly what I said abou the path. The problem is definitely with path. Still looking for PostScript gurus to tell me what is going on...

 

[tomatej]

post the path as AI

...don't take it too seriously

 

[askIllustrator]

post or email me a sample and Ill take a look at it.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

 

[BigRedX]

Is it possible to post the path up here so anyone interested can use it? Can't see how this can be done but I'm pretty busy here so haven't got time to look to hard. If not I'll email it to you.

 

[tomatej]

you have to upload it somewhere on the web and post the link
greetz

...don't take it too seriously

 

[BigRedX]

I don't htink there's any point to posting the path as since my last post I've tried some more things.

First I tried exactly recreating the path point for point by creating new points and snapping them to the existing points on the problem path. Took about 20 minutes and at the end I had a path that was identical to my original problem path. However when I tried to move points using the Transform Palette I had exactly the same problem except in reverse! Reversing the path direction using Attributes Palette made it behave exactly as the original path.

So... I created a new straight line with 2 points diagonally across the paste board and used the "Add Points" command to make it more complex until I had roughly the same number of points as the problem path. Same behaviour! Some points won't move others move other unrelated unselected points as well.

Finally I did the same again but tried moving the end points of the path after each "Add Points" command. I have now discovered that any path of more than 50 points has this problem!

Therefore you should be able to check this behaviour out for yourselves simply by creating a new path in Illustrator with more than 50 points in it.

Looks like a bug for the Transform Palette when dealing with a path with more than 50 points. Time to report to Adobe I think.

 

[BigRedX]

In case you're interested I've had a reply from Adobe about this problem. Its a bug with the Transform Plaette to do with how it handles the path in 50 point chunks. The Transform Palette is being rewritten for Illustrator 11 so it won't be an issue then, but there is unlikely to be an interrim bug fix for Illustrator 10.

 

[tomatej]

This I call fight till the end! All respect!

...don't take it too seriously

 

[askIllustrator]

I tested it and sure enough an object with 50+ points does nothing in the transform pallete. I used the scissors on two points to split it into separate paths and then the tranform pallete started working. Give that a shot.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

 

[BigRedX]

Actually the behaviour of the points depends from which end of the path you try and move points. If you create a path with say 60 points where point 1 is the start of the path (the first point you created) and point 60 is the end of the path, moving points 1 to 9 will also cause points 51 to 59 to move also. trying to move any other point with the transform palette won't have any effect at all (the point doesn't move).

For those who are interested (and thanks everyone for their input) here's the complete reply from Adobe:

"Looking at the TransformPalette code that was in AI 8 through AI 10, I can see exactly where the bug is. It asks for the anchor points in chunks of 50, so that it can use a constant-sized array on the local stack frame to hold them instead of having to allocate a block of memory the length of the path, and there is this variable called "i" which is the index within the current chunk of the anchor point being transformed, and another variable called "this_start" which is the index relative to the whole path of the beginning of the current chunk. The plugin API's access anchor point coordinates by "start index plus count", but that API does not include any information about the selection state. The selection status of an anchor point is accessed through a different API which works one at a time, using only an index. The Transform palette was asking for the anchor point selection status by passing in "i" as that index, instead of "this_start+i" as it should.

Fortunately, the TransformPalette was completely rewritten for AI 11 for performance reasons, to move the actual object transformation inside the core app instead of doing it through the plugin API's, and the new implementation does not have the bug. (It now doesn't even have to ask for the anchor point coordinates or their selection status at all, since the core can manipulate the path data structure directly. The whole working in chunks scheme is thus irrelevant.)"

I guess I was luck because this bug is 100% reproducable with exactly the same symptoms for everyone, unlike my problem with font substitution for special characters that seems only to have 50% reproducability and a lot more ifs and buts when describing what's happening.

Now looking forward to Illustrator 11!!