Can we be sued? 1

[petermeachem]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but here goes anyway.

Can we be sued for results of advice we have given here or does the fact that no money passes mean there is no contract, and therefore no case.

I'm in England, where things are slightly different, but dragging people off to court seems to be a popular pastime in the States.

I am asking because there is a guy in the Access forum that I am worried about. He is a volunteer in a Hospital, and is fiddling about with a database which contains patients records and treatment plans. His knowledge of Access is clearly limited. My reply was that he should not even be thinking of doing that sort of work. Someone else said much the same, but is still helping him. Suppose because of his (the question asker) ineptitude, and poor understanding both of Access and our replies, he screws up the database so the unfortunate patients get the wrong medication, or too much, or at the wrong time? What is our legal position?
Peter Meachem
peter@accuflight.com

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[BeckahC]

Well... I guess in America we can be sued for anything - but that doesn't mean the case wouldn't just be dismissed due to lack of proof or evidence...

I would worry more if I posted the name of my company or my e-mail address here at work... Someone could then track me down through that, or sue the company, landing me out on my butt anyway... I will always be BeckahC, and no one here will even know my last name, correct? So how can you sue, without spending a ton of money for first, uncovering the person's "identity" and then, tracking them down. I have mentioned I am in NY - NY is a BIG state. I think part of signing onto an on-line board such as this is the ability to remain annonymous and still get answers to your questions, and help answer other people's questions... losing that anonymity not only wrecks that, but could open us up to legal action of many kinds - don't you think? If you advertise your company in your sig, they are not just looking for someone with your name somewhere in a country or state, they are looking for someone in your company, which is much easier to find...

Could anyone, using completely legal means, find out people's full names, addresses, etc. to begin a lawsuit, and then prove the connection between those people and the questionable posts? Short of thesecurity oersonnel of this site giving out info - which I do not believe would happen, there is no legal way to take action against someone unless you have their full name and where they live, right?

This isn't a challenge so some hacker can come and learn about me or othrs here, I'm just pointing out that part of this forums use is that we all have the power to remain annonymous and not place ourselves at risk... What do you think? BeckahC

 

[SteveTheGeek]

Beckah,
I think they'd be able to subpoena Tecumsah's logs for the information you submitted in order to log in, or failing that, get their tek-tips server logs in order to track you down via IP address. It's been done in the past on other sites, though the lawsuits involved were for libel and slander, not negligence or whatever would come into play here. Anonymity tends to get ripped away pretty quickly when subpoenas come into play.
-Steve

 

[BeckahC]

Steve,
I suppose so... wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where people appreciated the advice they got, but could recognize that if they follow it, it's their own decision to do so and therefore do not have anyone to blame but themselves if something goes wrong? I guess it's nice to dream.... BeckahC

 

[SteveTheGeek]

I concur, but in the meantime, bleach will continue to bear prominent &quot;do not swallow&quot; warnings... <sigh>
-Steve

 

[BeckahC]

Yes, and the warning on meds that if you have a reaction to anything in them, you shouldn't take them....

How about the warning on cigarettes - Use of this product may be hazardous to your health!

And just in case a pg woman hasn't yet heard it from friend, doctor, family member, commercials or one of many books: Drinking while pregnant can cuase birth deffects and fetal alcohol syndrome!

or Lysol and other disinfectants with spray - do not inhale this product, it may cause death!


Common sense doesn't seem to be lacking, it seems to be abscent in a great many people.

When you work in a place that has signs up &quot;Do Not Touch&quot; and someone comes in and moves the sign so they can pick-up a piece on the same shelf...

...or when lifejackets come with directions, but cruise ships are still responsible if someone doesn't know how to use one in case of emergency...

... or how about when someone talks to your voice-mail, thinking they are leaving a message for someone else, even though your name is in the outgoing message....

People just don't seem to pay attention any more! At least, not until someone gets hurt or sick.


When popular Fast food chains have to put warning labels on their coffee cups and covers that caution people the contents might be hot...

...or when people sue because they fell next to a &quot;caution, floor slippery&quot; sign...

There is something wrong here... BeckahC

 

[garwain]

My personal favorits are:
shrinkwraped firelogs that have the warning &quot;Contents are combustible&quot;

Irons that warn &quot;Do not iron clothing while wearing&quot;

and people who touch the wall to see if the &quot;wet paint&quot; has dried yet...

How long until bottled water will have a waring &quot;do not inhale&quot;?

 

[SteveTheGeek]

To say nothing of the hitting-much-closer-to-home issue of network users opening extremely suspicious file attachments from people they don't know after having been warned roughly eighteen minutes ago about that very thing... <rant> I don't want stupidity to be made a crime, but it'd be nice if it reacquired some societal disfavor. Fine, you want to sue a fastfood joint for serving you too-hot coffee? No problem, but don't be surprised when people start avoiding you, declining to serve you at commercial establishments, and/or treating you like a barely functional idiot.
</rant>
-Steve

 

[BeckahC]

LOL It's funny, I never used to read the warnings on things.. I've been reading them lately since I found out I am expecting... It's a shame....

Nearly everything which needs to be plugged into the wall has a caution about electric shock on it...

Plastic bags warn they should not be placed over a baby or child's head!

Fans warn not to place fingers inside because of &quot;moving parts&quot;

and, agreeing with Steve,

Users can get e-mails and see notices posted warning about not opening attachments, save them and scan them, or just delete them unless you know exactly what they are and who they are from.... and they will still open a message that says &quot;Hi!&quot; from someone they've never heard of before!!!!!

(Admittedly I was guilty of opening a bad attachment once.... my e-mail admin at the time, a friend of mine, sent me a &quot;screensaver&quot; I had &quot;trouble opening it&quot; so I went to tell him that he needed to send it to me again... ummmm.... now I check all attachments.. even when they are from someone I do know!!!! and we warn users to do the same!!!!!)

Or how about the users that need help to figure something out, but never clicked the &quot;help&quot; button, but instead, get you out of a 3 hour long meeting with your boss discussing a huge, important project, to ask how to resize the text in the letter they are trying to type?


UGGHHHH! BeckahC

 

[MasterRacker]

Warning: Do NOT place a nail against your eye then strike with this hammer.......
Jeff
Working in IT is like trying to commit suicide with a very small hammer ....

 

[LesleyW]

Hey that's good news Beckah! Woohoooo, guess those &quot;who will stay home and mind baby&quot; discussions are going to take a more practical turn for you.

Take care, and congratulations

 

[BeckahC]

Thanks Lesley! I haven't told at work yet... That whole everybody looks at you different and your career path stalls until they're sure you come back thing is really something hat I am trying to avoid as long as I can... Oh, where are those discussions now? I want to ask where there are men that are willing to change diapers and bathe a ssquirming infant!?


LOL Jeff!

Everything has to come with warnings... I'd like to meet the idiot that left a baby in a shopping cart and sued the store cause something happened that inspired the warning on all shopping carts: Warning! Do not leave small children or infants unattended in cart!

Or how about the TVs that warn you if you remove the back cover, you could risk electric shock!!!

Or what about the warning about the airbag not taking place of a seatbelt? Obviously if you aren't wearing your seatbelt, you won't hit the airbag correctly, etc....

My this topic can go on! BeckahC

 

[PerryMc]

Congrats to you as well Beckah, I'd presume your first? You may be surprised, prior to the birth I could not invisage changing a nappy, but after my daughter was born I found it no problem at all. When it's your own child it makes a much bigger difference to men then it probably does to most women. And I have many fond memories of bath (fun) time when she was little. Make the most of it, it passes much too fast. We both gave up work for 4 months when she was born so she could bond with both of us. Would of liked longer, but had to start earning again.

Now, after that mega diversion from the topic, some of the worst offenders in the stupidity stakes are the well meaning ones. Those that receive a hoax virus warning (eg. jdbmgr.exe) and conscientiously send it on to everyone in their address books. MailMarshal blocked most coming into my work as junk, but a few got through. Most recipients phoned us first, but there's always one who forwarded it to everyone in the company.

Now if a forwarded hoax warning causes someone to delete a file that results in that persons pc crashing for say 30 minutes. And they work for a financial organisation so that 30 minutes represents potential losses in the multiple millions, will they be able to successfully sue the well intentioned but thought-challenged person who forwarded it to them?

Smile anyway,
Perry.

 

[BeckahC]

Perry, thank you, this is my first I am looking forward to the being a mom part - just not the different treatment I will get at work after I tell... they never believe that you are coming back until you do, so they have you train someone else, that way they are equipped to &quot;replace&quot; you and your importance drops a great deal...

... and now back to the topic....

Perry, that is a good one... I always call my Husband before passing those on, since it's part of his job to stay up to date on these things... I never pass anything on without research first, but I might get the same &quot;warning&quot; more than a dozen times in the week from well meaning friends, family and co-workers...

There were a great many scary warnings following 9/11 as well... I still remember getting e-mails warning against going to certain stores, supposedly on the &quot;other side&quot; or &quot;against the US&quot; calling for boycotts and such.... one big load of paranoid cr*p! Even after the news exposed the hoaxes people were still forwarding them in bulk!

some lighter things for a Friday :

The warning on some face cleansers: &quot;Caution, do not use near eyes or mouth&quot;

Another plastic bag warning I saw recently: &quot;Placing bag over head may cause suffocation&quot;

I once got a bag of pre-washed salad that warned the consumers to &quot;rinse before eating&quot;

The signs on the wall as you enter a stairwell: &quot;Caution, steps!&quot; (with the picture next to it of stairs)

The weight limit of an elevator that you do not see until you are all in the elevator as all 10 of you see the 8 person capacity sign after the doors close...

(or when that sign says something like 20 people, and you start trying to count while the elevator starts moving...)

The warning on hair dryers &quot;Caution, May get hot!&quot;

&quot;open other end&quot; (need I say more about this one?)

... I'll try and come up with more later...

No one wants to get sued, and a lot of people are out to find something to sue about... Have you ever noticed how many of them are the same people? BeckahC

 

[SPYDERIX]

Hi,

I've just skimmed through some of these posts and it suddenly brings up a point. Does Tek-Tips have a policy in writing somewhere that says that any advise used from these forums is at the risk of the user and not by the supplier?

Maybe they should write something like that so that none of us have to worry. I have thought about the same things too. I even wrote a FAQ on Copyrighting digital graphics and was advised by another member to say that I was not a lawyer and that any information used was at the users own risk.

Anyone in this forum part of the Tek-Tips Round Table? One of the round table members might want to mention this to the high autohorities of this site to ensure all of our safety and protection.

That's my 2 bits! NATE

http://www.spyderix-designz.com

 

[sleipnir214]

Yeah, but the supplier is Tek-Tips. We are the manufacturers.

And as BekahC's last post points out, (with respect to Robert Anson Heinlein) you can never underestimate the power of human stupidity. Or the power of a stupid human's lawyer.

I've often thought that the U.S. should give up on the whole idea of tort reform and just go back to the old &quot;20 paces. Turn! Aim! Fire!&quot; idea. But then, I'm an excellent shot with a pistol.


______________________________________________________________________
Perfection in engineering does not happen when there is nothing more to add.
Rather it happens when there is nothing more to take away.

 

[aexley]

What a fascinating thread you've got going here!

I thought I'd would just drop in my all time favourite 'Warning for the Stupid'

'This product is not suitable for nut allergy sufferers'
- On a bag of peanuts

And 'side effects may include ...headaches...'
- In a packet of Aspirin

aexley

 

[MasterRacker]

TT's disclaimer may be seen here:

http://www.tecumsehgroup.com/disclaimer.htm

It's also available from every page. Right in the top banner on the right, click on &quot;Site Policies&quot; then scroll down to the link to the disclaimer.
Jeff
No matter how bad it is, it can always get worse ....

 

[BeckahC]

Jeff,
Thank you. I wasn't able to mark your post helpful - the little pop-up just returned an error window. Just wanted to let you know your post was appreciated

Sleipnir214,
I guess I kind of agree... if they made it more difficult to sue someone, would so many people bother with it? Maybe offer a penalty for ridiculous or unnecessary lawsuits? Of course, then the government would get sued... who's to say what's lawsuit &quot;worthy&quot; and what's not? BeckahC

 

[sleipnir214]

You're right, BeckahC. The real problem with the tort system in the United States is that there is no penalty for pulling bullsh &quot;bovine scatological&quot; stunts.

Here, as I see it, is the minimum necesary change. You add one rule to the system:

If you sue and lose, you pick up the defendant's legal fees.


I know that would make me cautious about suing somebody. Lemme see...I could be up $50000, or I could end on the wrong end of $10000 in legal fees.

______________________________________________________________________
Perfection in engineering does not happen when there is nothing more to add.
Rather it happens when there is nothing more to take away.

 

[petermeachem]

you pick up the defendant's legal fees

I think that is often/generally the case here (UK).

By the way. I don't know if you American lot have noticed, but you are doing rather well in the World Cup. Beat Mexico 2-0. Well done! Peter Meachem
peter@accuflight.com

Support Joanna's Bikeathon

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