I had a 35 minute phone conference today with Verizon and AT&T. I am no closer to an answer than I was when I started. We are a small college and what we want is for the college name and main switchboard number to show up on all LD calls. That's it. We don't want extension translation, inbound Caller ID, ANI, nothing. We just want all of our outbound LD stamped with the college name and number. AT&T says we need to change our TI to a ISDN T1 with PRI. They claim they can send the number but not the name - that we need PRI to do that. Verizon says they are nuts, that they put the info on all local calls with a non-pri T1 and that AT&T can do it too. I called Sprint, and they said they could do it as well. Can't AT&T just label all the trunk groups with our info? Why do we need PRI, and what would our PBX be sending to AT&T that they need? Believe it or not, I have been asking this question since July and still cannot find anybody that can tell me a straight answer. Help! Can anybody explain this?
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Caller ID - non PRI T1
- Thread starter jp61616
- Start date
very strange.. two post with the same problem in the same week... if they can add the number, and have access to the ss7 table, they can display the number.. anyone with ss7 access can marry a name to a clid... if i send my home number from a switch in another area code, my name displays.. the ss7 is national so even in a remote exchange, my name displays... you need pri to send clid that you can change... but even if you had that, you can't send a name..
if this can only be done via pri, how has it been a feature on home phones for 20 ? years
john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc
if this can only be done via pri, how has it been a feature on home phones for 20 ? years
john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc
Agreed with JP - don't ask the IXC about "name" because they cannot even control it. Just ask them to send a number (that you know is linked to your local main billing number) and the name will appear to anyone in a civilized part of the telco network.
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- Thread starter
- #4
John,
I appreciate your response. Actually, it was me both times - with the same problem. I thought the conference call today would clear things up, but it did not. I got a lot of "I don't know's" from AT&T and the LD reseller. They seem locked into this PRI circuit - like every college has to have this to send name and number spill. I have told them over and over we don't need all the features of a PRI T1, we just want a basic name and number spill. They continue to argue that we need a PRI T1 and to reprogram our switch. Verizon and I think they are crazy - but how do you convince people that a non-PRI T1 will work? What would you suggest I tell them? Thanks.
I appreciate your response. Actually, it was me both times - with the same problem. I thought the conference call today would clear things up, but it did not. I got a lot of "I don't know's" from AT&T and the LD reseller. They seem locked into this PRI circuit - like every college has to have this to send name and number spill. I have told them over and over we don't need all the features of a PRI T1, we just want a basic name and number spill. They continue to argue that we need a PRI T1 and to reprogram our switch. Verizon and I think they are crazy - but how do you convince people that a non-PRI T1 will work? What would you suggest I tell them? Thanks.
i would tell them 'thanks but since you obviously do not have my company's interests in mind and all you can focus on is making your sales quota, then i will need to move my service to a provider that understands our needs and is concerned with our satisfaction'.
You mention this is LD outbound, is ATT your local provider or your LD provider? this is important because your outbound trunk should be controlled by the LEC. if ATT is not the LEC, maybe your talking to the wrong guys. for example, Verizon is our LD carrier, but the T is supplied by BellSouth. we talk to BS if we need a CLID change.
just my two cents.
fibereng
You mention this is LD outbound, is ATT your local provider or your LD provider? this is important because your outbound trunk should be controlled by the LEC. if ATT is not the LEC, maybe your talking to the wrong guys. for example, Verizon is our LD carrier, but the T is supplied by BellSouth. we talk to BS if we need a CLID change.
just my two cents.
fibereng
- Thread starter
- #6
We have Verizon for local and AT&T for LD. Verizon sends the college name and switchboard number no problem. It is the LD where we have the dispute. Verizon says we can route the LD through them and have caller ID no problem. We won't have to change a thing. The LD reseller says that is more expensive, so we should have a dedicated T1. There is the problem. AT&T says they need a T1 with PRI to send the college name. Verizon says this can be written at the carrier level and we don't need a thing. Who is right? I have spent 6 months trying to find out the answer to this.
in this case you got the gospel from verizon... if verizon enters your 10 digit in the ss7 it's done.. they have your 7 digit in it now.. they might not (reg's) be able to since your ld is with another carrier.. but it's not a tech issue.. it's a sales issue.. you haven't talked to the right person at att.. ask your contact there is you have at&t ld at home do you have to but a prin to get name display outbound? i can't get a dual pri with a clock and msdl daughter board to fit in my home phone..
john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc
jp61616 - everyone here is correct. I worked for an ILEC for 5 years and as the LD carrier, we could pass name and number on non-PRI trunks. Although it will always be the same name and number (usually the billing number and name), but this too can be configured to whatever you like.
Just tell AT&T that you wish to switch carriers and they will change their minds. Go over the head of whomever you are talking to now. Sometimes they get stuck in a mode and don't want to help anyone and you just need to rattle the right cage.
John
Just tell AT&T that you wish to switch carriers and they will change their minds. Go over the head of whomever you are talking to now. Sometimes they get stuck in a mode and don't want to help anyone and you just need to rattle the right cage.
John
- Thread starter
- #9
Hi guys - OK, I think I am starting to understand this a bit better. Let me review this and see if I have it. First, I should not be asking about a name send at all. I should be asking AT&T to send the main billing number. Once that is sent, the others in the chain will access a database and marry the billing number to a name, and both will display. So you don't need PRI at all. Is this correct?
And what is the ss7 table?
And is this how it works from home? My billing number is sent by the LD company, the billing number is matched to a database where my name is accessed, and both name and number display - right?
Is this a case of people in the phone biz not understanding how caller ID works?
And what is the ss7 table?
And is this how it works from home? My billing number is sent by the LD company, the billing number is matched to a database where my name is accessed, and both name and number display - right?
Is this a case of people in the phone biz not understanding how caller ID works?
Correct. The billing number is probably loaded in the CO SS7 tables already. Once they get the number it will correspond with the name.
You do NOT need PRI for this to work. If you wanted to send individual DID numbers for the CLID then you would need a PRI, but this does not seem to be what you want.
The SS7 (Signalling System 7) is a way to perform signalling so that calls can be completed, routed and billed correctly by the PSTN.
That is similar to the way your home number produces CLID on the calling end, and yes, it sounds like you are working with a typical Bell Head that is giving the typical response from their Telecom Union Handbook, page 125 section a, subsection i - "That's not my job to fix."
Hope they can turn it around for you. They are making this WAY to difficult.
John
You do NOT need PRI for this to work. If you wanted to send individual DID numbers for the CLID then you would need a PRI, but this does not seem to be what you want.
The SS7 (Signalling System 7) is a way to perform signalling so that calls can be completed, routed and billed correctly by the PSTN.
That is similar to the way your home number produces CLID on the calling end, and yes, it sounds like you are working with a typical Bell Head that is giving the typical response from their Telecom Union Handbook, page 125 section a, subsection i - "That's not my job to fix."
Hope they can turn it around for you. They are making this WAY to difficult.
John
- Thread starter
- #11
So this whole thing should have been a trouble ticket on an AT&T circuit? Once AT&T spills the number, that is matched with our name in an off site database - and presto - caller ID works. Is this correct? They don't need PRI or anything to make this work, right?
No PRI is needed to make, what you want to do, work. I don't care what ATT says about their system. There are systems out there today that are doing exactly what you are doing.
My office pulses out a preset Caller ID name and Number from their system to my home and the circuit is NOT a PRI.
John
My office pulses out a preset Caller ID name and Number from their system to my home and the circuit is NOT a PRI.
John
- Thread starter
- #13
When I started this nightmare (JULY) the verizon tech told me to call in a trouble ticket on the AT&T circuit. That is when this whole thing got started. We have 4 parties involved - Verizon, us, AT&T, and our LD reseller. Verizon has said from the start that we don't need a thing - that AT&T should spill the number and problem solved. The reseller, and AT&T, say we need a PRI circuit. They claim they work with colleges all over and they all need PRI. That is where I come in - I am not a phone tech, but I play one on TV. In other words, I cam the college phone guy. So I start off this long journey about caller ID - and the more I learn, the more I think Verizon is right. But how do I convince AT&T and the reseller of this?
I also have a very related question, one I went around and around with Verizon, AT&T and Sprint over a year ago. I finally GAVE UP!
I do not have PRI.
I have several COTs and WATs lines (remember those?).
Any outbound call from my site to someone with caller ID gets a display showing the number of the COT or WAT teh call went out on. I asked all the carriers to change it so ONLY my main business phone number gets displayed. I don't care about name, but if that shows up as well and is correct, that's great.
Is this strictly a Verizon (my LEC) issue? Shall I unsheath my sword and start beating on THEM again?
Thanks.
I do not have PRI.
I have several COTs and WATs lines (remember those?).
Any outbound call from my site to someone with caller ID gets a display showing the number of the COT or WAT teh call went out on. I asked all the carriers to change it so ONLY my main business phone number gets displayed. I don't care about name, but if that shows up as well and is correct, that's great.
Is this strictly a Verizon (my LEC) issue? Shall I unsheath my sword and start beating on THEM again?
Thanks.
HarrisD1200
Technical User
PEMpal, the ability to assign a different caller ID on a COT is a CO switch ability in some switches. Most translators don't know the commands unless they've looked for them. In a DMS-100 or DMS-500, the command is SDNA (Set DN Attributes). This allows you to change the Address displayed to the outside world to something other than the line number. Small offices and doctors love it, because you can have 10 lines that only display one Caller ID number. And, the name follows the number. I don't know if Verizon uses DMS's, but if they do, mention SDNA to them for this. Sadly, DMS is the only CO switch I know, but I do know that the GTD-5 and 5ESS has the same type of command, just don't know what it is. Luck to ya!
I'm new here, but I have had several experiences with this. Back in 1997, a doctor in NY City had his lawyers threaten a Major Hotel (where I worked) with a lawsuit if they did not correct there caller ID. It turns out, AT&T was sending the number out on all calls going out on a plain old T1 route, no Dchannels, with one digit off in the exchange portion of the number. People from all over the world with caller ID or Call Return thought they were calling back to the main number of the hotel. The Hotel is 2200 rooms and all calls outside of NYC went this route. I confirmed the incorrect number was coming only from the AT&T trunks.
AT&T apologized and corrected it immediately. I don't remember if the doctors name appeared to the callers.
I'm a field tech now and a recent problem came up with the names that appeared on the caller ID. An attorney's office has every partner, 39 of them, listed individually in the White Pages by name, under the main number of the firm. They were fighting with AT&T over an attorney's name that appeared on the caller ID and not the name of the firm when somebody called a clien in Long Island. AT&T passed the buck to verizon, as janaya stated, the local carrier is in control of the number also controls the listing. Verizon said everything is fine on their side. If I called my dad on his verizon telephone line, the law firm name appeared correctly in capital letters, no problem. I called my wife, in the same village, on a number that is ported to Cablevision OptimumVoice, and an attorney's name appears. This was the major complaint I was working on. What a coincidence, the person who reported the problem also has Optimum Voice. I have a second line at home, same exchange, but ported to Verizon Voicewing service. I called my wife on the Voicewing line and a different attorney's name appeared, this time in upper and lower case text! The customer tells me they had a couple of instances with this name too!
I didn't get to follow up on the resolution, but I gave the customer situations the could be recreated to prove out with Verizon.
Before I arrived on this trouble the customer had both AT&T and Verizon override their outbound CLID on their circuits with the one and only main number they wanted everyone to see. That was done and I was able to prove it with the dchannel messages printing on all trunks. The main number was delivered no matter what the switch sent out, and no matter what carrier, the listed name depended on what LEC received the call on the terminating end.
The only company that handled the firm name and attorney names is Verizon so it fell back on them.
I hope this clarifies who is able to do what for you, with or without ISDN/PRI.
AT&T apologized and corrected it immediately. I don't remember if the doctors name appeared to the callers.
I'm a field tech now and a recent problem came up with the names that appeared on the caller ID. An attorney's office has every partner, 39 of them, listed individually in the White Pages by name, under the main number of the firm. They were fighting with AT&T over an attorney's name that appeared on the caller ID and not the name of the firm when somebody called a clien in Long Island. AT&T passed the buck to verizon, as janaya stated, the local carrier is in control of the number also controls the listing. Verizon said everything is fine on their side. If I called my dad on his verizon telephone line, the law firm name appeared correctly in capital letters, no problem. I called my wife, in the same village, on a number that is ported to Cablevision OptimumVoice, and an attorney's name appears. This was the major complaint I was working on. What a coincidence, the person who reported the problem also has Optimum Voice. I have a second line at home, same exchange, but ported to Verizon Voicewing service. I called my wife on the Voicewing line and a different attorney's name appeared, this time in upper and lower case text! The customer tells me they had a couple of instances with this name too!
I didn't get to follow up on the resolution, but I gave the customer situations the could be recreated to prove out with Verizon.
Before I arrived on this trouble the customer had both AT&T and Verizon override their outbound CLID on their circuits with the one and only main number they wanted everyone to see. That was done and I was able to prove it with the dchannel messages printing on all trunks. The main number was delivered no matter what the switch sent out, and no matter what carrier, the listed name depended on what LEC received the call on the terminating end.
The only company that handled the firm name and attorney names is Verizon so it fell back on them.
I hope this clarifies who is able to do what for you, with or without ISDN/PRI.
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