Cable TV to 6 rooms? Which pro?

[wjl11]

Hello,
The cable TV runs in my house are a mess. All over the place, inside the house, outside the house, inside the walls, running along the floors.
I want to have someone come in and re-do this the right way. Split RG6 from where it enters to the house to six rooms throughout, terminating at wallplates.
Do I call an electrician or some other professional in order to get this done right?
Thanks,
Will

 

[gmc74]

Ok, I found some pictures on my site, but they are from the first weekend when I moved in. These were taken before I cleaned it up and made all the wires nice-nice.

http://www.geekfestlan.com/images/wire1.jpg

The first picture you see the multiplexor (takes two DSS signals and a cable signal, and converts it to 4 DSS signals, with a cable signal in each wire) in the middle above the panel. On the top shelf is the cable modem, below that is the router.

http://www.geekfestlan.com/images/wire2.jpg

In the panel you can see a video distribution block, that is fed back from one of the TVs and distributes to the TVs in the house that aren't on DSS. In other words, what is on in one room, is on in every room that doesn't have a box.

There is also a phone distribution panel and a network patch panel. I only have a couple phone lines, instead of the expense of wired phones, I went with a CyberGenie phone system. They don't make them any more, but they are great if you can find them.

 

[daronwilson]

Often someone has a bad experience with one product line and is reluctant to use it again. I've sure found that with some stuff.

In residential, I see very little need to do a rack mount environment unless you are a geek. I am, and I used an OnQ Technologies panel at home. I have 2 runs of cat5e and two runs of RG6qs to each location. Blue for data, white for voice; one black RG6, one white RG6. It trims out pretty nicely using the OnQ panels, giving me 568A jacks in the panel for data, and the voice is all bridged with amphenol plugs that can be removed and 25 pair pigtails plugged in so that I can install an electronic phone system. There is a 2" conduit from the OnQ panel to a box behind a wall mounted shelf unit. On the shelf sits my Cable modem, router/switch, wireless access point and all the patch cables go through the conduit into the OnQ panel. The black coax is for my digital cable, so it goes into an amplified splitter and then to every jack in the house. The white coax is a spare initially, and now I have taken the output of one digital cable box and sent it to a couple outlets in the house where I don't need a cable box and am willing to just watch whatever is on the other cable box. One run I use to modulate a camera as well and dump onto the system.

OnQ is one of many residential solutions, I chose leviton decora plates and inserts for the house. These inserts on levitons commerical product and I've experienced no problem with them at home or in the field.

If you really want a 19" rack and commercial products, by all means go ahead. You can put a 19" swing rack on the wall, mount a 24 port blank panel and snap in inserts for phone, data, video, CATV, whatever. Personally, I think it makes a better looking finished product neatly terminated in a cabinet with a lid, mounted flush in the wall.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

OK, I think I was somewhat misinterpreted:

You can put it inside the wall, and you can use flushmount 12 port patch panels that mount onto 66 block clips, and you can do it all inside the wall... just DO NOT use one of those piece of junk products. Someone sent me the link to that multiplex one. I've never used that brand, I've only used Leviton and a few other ones.

They're not the way to go. They don't provide you with a quality product, and they cost more than doing it yourself the right way. I'd mount my splitters for coax, and all of that business myself. I'd also put a 12 port patch panel in (more if you need it) and I'd mount my router/switches in there as well myself (linksys switches and routers have wall mounting kits available, for instance -- netgear ones used to have a wall mount built in). I'd put a 66 block in for phones, or 110 -- whatever suits you best, and if you want to do security cameras and what not... you can put an RF modulator in there too. I'd make that a cavity in the wall with a backboard of some sort, and then I'd make a custom door to close over it, with some vent holes.

Cheaper, cleaner, and higher quality.

When I said rackmount products, I meant if you needed that much quantity, just because it's rackable doesn't mean it's better. I know in our house for instance, we've got 4000 square feet. There are 12 phone jacks, 26 data jacks, 16 coax jacks, and each jack has more cable sitting behind it in case it ever needs to be used. We've got flex running from each mudring in the wall to a small IDF closeby (ie. a closet or what have you) and then from there we've got 3" PVC conduit going to the MDF of the house.

Maybe it's too complicated? But I think not. It's upgradeable with ease, it's clean, and it works great... didn't cost too much either.

 

[daronwilson]

Hey surprise, I completely disagree

First...my competition does that, buys a nice custom home panel and when you open it, there are 66 blocks and stuff screwed all over in it, he thinks its great too because it is cheaper i think. Put two of them side by side and I'll sell my OnQ finished product all day. I take pictures of his to show potential customers what the difference can be.

Second...and more importantly, what are you having problems with in the home structured wiring environment? We do lots of these as well in large custom homes, no failures with any of the components, etc. Yes sometimes we mount the switch and router in the cabinet, I have several where I mounted the alarm panel in there as well, nice to have it all together.

Third...cost. I have to agree it is cheaper to buy a 8 way splitter and screw it to the box than to buy OnQ's 8 way splitter, and if you need to save money you sure can in a few areas like that. What we usually get is the person who saw this product in a magazine or trade show or something and wants this clean finished product in his house. So we give him a managable, labeled, changable (without a punchdown tool) type of installation that looks finished and is all by the same manufacturer.

Anyway, several ways to do it, but I'm curious what failed for you that makes you think all residential panels are junk. Junk or not, they function very well for their intended purpose and are going in all over the place in new construction.


It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

If you take a look at their specs, and inspect the physical devices... they're not made that well, in my experience. Again, this is dealing with the Leviton brand.

It is my opinion that it probably looks a wee bit cleaner, but I can make any panel myself look clean... so I don't think that counts.

When you say a bunch of 66 blocks screwed in and whatnot, you're doing a disserve to what I'm saying. I build backboards all day... they're not just scattered about and screwed in like I was trying to get the job done in 10 seconds. They look... like art, to be real frank.

I've built a couple of custom ones for clients myself. I did one in Pebble Beach for a remodel, and it looked excellent... I simply installed an 8 way splitter, a 66 block, and a 12 port 66 block style patch panel.

Mounted inside the wall, made a custom door for it in a few minutes, and put in some cable management devices. Took me less than an hour, and it worked out perfectly.

Parts (total) were about 90 bucks I think.

Now granted, it's a lot easier to pop one of those panels in there, and install their modules, and ta da -- you're done. I don't install any modules for business customers. I don't install and prefabricated devices for business customers. Why should I do it with a residence? I'm a craftsman because I do work that I put my heart into... (Wow doesn't this sound sappy) so I'm not about to install some little prefab panel when I can do it myself, make it look better, use higher quality components that I install for businesses everyday, and still make it modular to where if I needed to add something down the road, it wouldn't be a problem.

My problems have been that the PCB on some of the phone modules has been very weak, and snapped in one case. I wasn't impressed with the router and switch modules they have. I don't really dig the whole phone module layout anyhow. I'm real bias towards doing it by hand though, so don't ask me.

If I were going to do 10 houses in a row... in some development, I might install a panel like that. Makes it consistant and easy. But, I don't do that. So it's my opinion to do it by hand.

Now you say changable without a punch tool. I'm assuming you're referring to the modular jacks they have on the phone modules so you can swap things around? Again... they've made 66 block overlays with modular jacks on them for years, I could do that... or I could terminate everything to a patch panel (which is what I prefer to do anyhow) and then be able to cross connect everything with patch cords. Also doable.

So sorry if I seem negative, vauge, and don't have much explanation for my reasoning -- I just don't agree with prefabricated stuff. Each job is different and warrants a different method anyhow.

 

[gmc74]

Any way you slice it, mine works great!

And it is art too, kind of abstract

 

[daronwilson]

Seems to be a couple personal preference points. I too am a craftsman, however I see no reason to build everything myself. I suppose I could punch square holes in a sheet metal panel and snap jacks into it, but hey, why not just buy one designed for it? I could take a metal box, mount "F" fittings in it, install a couple capacitors and ta-da I have a CATV splitter. But again, they already make those, so why not just use them? Your desire to 'roll your own' is admirable, and yes that is great if that is what your customer wants. My experience has been just the opposite in my market.

Installing an 89B backplane and snapping a premanufactured 12 port data patchpanel into it takes no more craftsmanship than installing a premanufactured 12 port data patch panel that is listed and designed for the panel. It has little to do with craftsmanship, it is all about personal preference.

FYI, I just looked at the Leviton stuff, it looks pretty flimsy to me. It is not the only product out there, some of them are very robust and solid, I have to agree with your assessment of the leviton residential modules. I didn't mean to do your work a disservice, I can only reference what I have seen in the field, and what you described doing sounded like what my competition does. I'm sure yours are neat clean.

I think you do install prefab units for business customers, if you use 66 blocks, 110 blocks, patch panels, wire management panels, equipment racks, etc. All of those devices are designed and listed for the particular use. Makes little sense to build it all from scratch.

Always more than one way to do it, this one depends on your personal preference and what results you want from the installation.

Thanks, good luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

I think I got a bit pissed off, my apologies... ranting and raving I suppose.

When I say prefab, I mean entirely prefab. Obviously I don't make every little component myself, that's excessive.

I just happen to not like the modular systems I have delt with thus far. Now it may be that the ones you're using are money, and work great... but so far I've seen junk (like you said, the leviton ones do seem flimsy).

So when I say prefab, I mean ENTIRELY prefab. Think of it as I like to assemble the kit myself in my own housing. And obviously installing a module versus installing a 12 port patch panel doesn't differ much. It's just the way I put it in, that's what I'm referencing to. The way I design the flow of the whole thing. Again, this is all preference, and regardless -- the product you use may satisfy my needs, it's just that what I've used is trash, so I resort to making my own. Sans soldering capacitors and sealing my own splitters, screw that... that's taking it too far. I just like to build the backboard myself, that's all I'm saying.

That's not anywhere as important as conduit. That's my big thing of the day. Conduit conduit conduit. I get sad when I see electricians installing CAT-5 and CAT-3 and then they use romex nails into the studs... it's like hello? What about ten years from now when this type of cable is obsolete. INSTALL CONDUIT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. Smurf tube is cheap, effective, and easy to install.

So screw my argument about home backboards and what not. Let's argue about conduit

Good points DW, I think we both see the pluses and minuses. I just got on a bit of a tangent, that's all.

 

[alokwww]

Sorry, I'm kinda new to cabling. Is smurf tube another name for flexible conduit?

 

[AvayaNovice]

Smurf tube is a plastic flex conduit. Fairly cheap, available everywhere, easy to install.

Here's a photo, although this isn't blue

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/homes/img/nov02/tubesbig1102.jpg

 

[AvayaNovice]

By the way, wherever possible, install MUD RINGS instead of single gang boxes, or any size gang box if you can.

Gang boxes don't provide enough space to have your cable safely tucked away in, they make you go a bit too heavy on the bend radius, also they're hard to work in, plus they're tough to get everything to fit when you have coax terminations, or even fiber terminations.

 

[alokwww]

That's a greeatt picture! Thanks! I have two easy questions:

Is it easy to fish through?

How would I keep it secured to a stud in a retrofit using mud rings since? Would the smurf tube just hang there?

Thanks
-Alok

 

[AvayaNovice]

With your mudring set in place, (mind you that some people misinterpret a cut in ring as a mud ring, a mud ring is attached to a stud with two nails usually and is done predrywall or whatever wall surface you may have) you set your smurf tube to be about flush with the top or bottom of the ring (top or bottom depends on if you're coming from below or from above with your tube). Then you just use a standard strap to attach it to the stud like you would a piece of conduit. So when the drywall is done and you're ready to fish it in, you simply fish up the tube from the mudring.

It's not the EASIEST to fish through, but it's not that bad -- just make sure you go slow to not burn the jacket of the cable.

 

[daronwilson]

The smurf tube is relatively easy to fish through, but we always put a string in there when we install to be sure before the wall is covered up. You should observe the same rules as you would for any flexible conduit with bend radius and limit the number of corners.

We usually run it up to the base of the mud ring, put a connector on it and use a 2 hole PVC strap to strap it to the stud. I't pretty easy to reach in and move the insulation to fish the wires in.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[AvayaNovice]

Using a pull string would be faster if you use a mouse and a vaccum, yes.

But yeah, it's just like anything else -- be slow, don't burn the jacket, and you can't really bend it far enough to violate any bend radius rules, but keep the path as straight as possible, makes it a lot less harsh on the cable. You can always use lubricant if you need to.

 

[Jd925]

I belive i saw that ideal had lube for wires? Where can i get this does a place like Home Depot have it? Thanks

 

[AvayaNovice]

I don't know if home depot does. Certainly should he available at any electrical supply house, like CED.