franklin97355
Technical User
Can someone tell me where to find reference to the support of cables above a suspended ceiling...(please)![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
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Cable above suspended ceiling 2
- Thread starter franklin97355
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Geez I just don't have the time to look it all up, but, the 2002 NEC 300.11 (A) talks about support and says that cables and raceways shall not be supported by ceiling grids.
Darron, read what I said above. Chapter 3 and article 300 do not apply to low voltage wiring. Article 800 covers it and 800 is really a separate book from the rest of the NEC. The NEC is far less stringent about low voltage than it is about class 1 wiring (power and light).
Seems everybody believes 300.11(A) applies to low voltage, it does not, but that's fine. As far as I'm concerned the support requirements should be the same, can't see why they should be different. What difference does it make if you have a bunch of MC cables or a 6 inch bundle of cat5? This isn't an electrical issue, it's a mechanical issue related to weight.
The NEC is a portion of the National Fire Code.
Not just a portion but written by them (the NFPA) to cover electrical work.
... most fire/safety codes are build on experience.
Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20.
While I like EMT I challenge anyone to dispute the safety record of other wiring methods such as AC (BX), MC and even romex. If there is a problem, 99% of the time it's because somebody inexperienced caused it, not the wiring. Requirements like this are almost always the handiwork of influential groups wanting to restrict work. Being overly restrictive can backfire because people will find ways to do their own work or hire "trunk slammers" to do it because of the money. When this happens you know that illegal materials are going to be used as well as unsafe work.
-Hal
Darron, read what I said above. Chapter 3 and article 300 do not apply to low voltage wiring. Article 800 covers it and 800 is really a separate book from the rest of the NEC. The NEC is far less stringent about low voltage than it is about class 1 wiring (power and light).
Seems everybody believes 300.11(A) applies to low voltage, it does not, but that's fine. As far as I'm concerned the support requirements should be the same, can't see why they should be different. What difference does it make if you have a bunch of MC cables or a 6 inch bundle of cat5? This isn't an electrical issue, it's a mechanical issue related to weight.
The NEC is a portion of the National Fire Code.
Not just a portion but written by them (the NFPA) to cover electrical work.
... most fire/safety codes are build on experience.
Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20.
While I like EMT I challenge anyone to dispute the safety record of other wiring methods such as AC (BX), MC and even romex. If there is a problem, 99% of the time it's because somebody inexperienced caused it, not the wiring. Requirements like this are almost always the handiwork of influential groups wanting to restrict work. Being overly restrictive can backfire because people will find ways to do their own work or hire "trunk slammers" to do it because of the money. When this happens you know that illegal materials are going to be used as well as unsafe work.
-Hal
daronwilson
Vendor
Chapter 3 and article 300 do not apply to low voltage wiring. Article 800 covers it and 800 is really a separate book from the rest of the NEC.
Help me out please, I'm unable to find your reference for this.
300.1 Scope (A) All Wiring Installations. This article covers wiring methods for all wiring installations unless modified by other articles.
I can find no reference to Article 800 being a separate book from the rest of the NEC. In fact, Code Making Panel #16 covered Articles 640,650,720,725,727,760,800,810,820 and 830. The same group of folks worked on ALL those articles. The table of contents does not reflect anything different for article 800, it is all a portion of the National Fire Code (NFPA 70) as produced by the National Fire Protection Agency.
Enlighten me please, I just don't see where you get to completely ignore chapter 3.
thanks,
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Help me out please, I'm unable to find your reference for this.
300.1 Scope (A) All Wiring Installations. This article covers wiring methods for all wiring installations unless modified by other articles.
I can find no reference to Article 800 being a separate book from the rest of the NEC. In fact, Code Making Panel #16 covered Articles 640,650,720,725,727,760,800,810,820 and 830. The same group of folks worked on ALL those articles. The table of contents does not reflect anything different for article 800, it is all a portion of the National Fire Code (NFPA 70) as produced by the National Fire Protection Agency.
Enlighten me please, I just don't see where you get to completely ignore chapter 3.
thanks,
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
- Thread starter
- #23
daronwilson
Vendor
Ah I've been shot at many times before 
Point well taken, I dug the book out of the truck again and read 90.3. Actually I think I've gone through this with the inspector before.
Oh well, I'll put this together and go ask him tomorrow. We don't lay it on the ceiling tile any more, we don't tie to the existing ceiling support wires either. We don't wire tie the cables to conduits or raceway or sprinkler piping.
In short, we install supports for our cable and secure it, and I've not had a problem with the inspector for that.
I should have read more closely, sorry, just didn't spot that section.
thanks!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Point well taken, I dug the book out of the truck again and read 90.3. Actually I think I've gone through this with the inspector before.
Oh well, I'll put this together and go ask him tomorrow. We don't lay it on the ceiling tile any more, we don't tie to the existing ceiling support wires either. We don't wire tie the cables to conduits or raceway or sprinkler piping.
In short, we install supports for our cable and secure it, and I've not had a problem with the inspector for that.
I should have read more closely, sorry, just didn't spot that section.
thanks!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
You guys have me confused.
I just blew off the dust & dug my 1993 version of the NEC Code out of my truck.Article 800 is 14 pages long. I can't even find a Article 900. I thought if that is the version I am abiding by, the inspectors must follow that one also.
Steve
tele-dataservices.com
I just blew off the dust & dug my 1993 version of the NEC Code out of my truck.Article 800 is 14 pages long. I can't even find a Article 900. I thought if that is the version I am abiding by, the inspectors must follow that one also.
Steve
tele-dataservices.com
daronwilson
Vendor
In Oregon, the state adopts the NEC when it is ready as well as publishing additional requirements that the state has set that are generally more stringent than the NEC. Also, many cities adopt even tighter code requirements within their jurisdiction. We are currently operating under the 2002 code, when the 2005 comes out AND after the state adopts it, then we will shift to that code.
Looks like about 18 pages on Article 800 in my code book. Do you mean article 90? I don't have a 900 either.
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Looks like about 18 pages on Article 800 in my code book. Do you mean article 90? I don't have a 900 either.
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daronwilson
Vendor
Well it was a good learning experience for me. I checked with my inspector, and he said the only reason he could see would prevent us from tying to the ceiling tie wire would be if they were bundled in a way that prevented the tiles from being opened, or if the ceiling were a fire rated suspended ceiling in which the entire ceiling structure is 'rated' and as such engineered to only support the weight of the sheetrock type ceiling tiles and grid.
Of course, there are other deisgn considerations and other cabling guidelines to consider, but as far as the NEC, it appears it isn't a violation to use the ceiling support wires to support yoru cabling.
Good Luck!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Of course, there are other deisgn considerations and other cabling guidelines to consider, but as far as the NEC, it appears it isn't a violation to use the ceiling support wires to support yoru cabling.
Good Luck!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
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