Buying a new phone system, need some guidance... 1

[tdoom15]

Here is our situation: We are an outbound call facility that sells advertising in 4 different states and we just purchased a building that is a complete blank shell and construction should be done in about 6 weeks. We currently have an old Samsung IDCS 100 phone system that we have been using for many years. It does nothing special except allow us to transfer calls between desks and is reliable. We don't use voicemail or anything else. Recently we learned of the ability to change our outbound caller ID to match the area we are calling in...for instance: If we are calling from Indiana to Illinois...instead of our area code coming up as 317 (indy), it would come up as 815 (ill). This is important to us and has made us decide to purchase a new phone system.

Here are our needs:
- Ability to change outbound caller ID
(Ideally by pressing a button on the phone to select which outbound area code to select and having up to 3 ppl able to use that same area code at once)
- Caller ID would be nice
- Ability to transfer calls between front desk to sales floor
- Handle approximately 45 users (currently about 30)
- RELIABLE

I've spent the last week contacting many different companies and have kind of narrowed it down to 2 based on features and what I believe their competence level to be, one hosted and one on premise system.

Hosted: Dialing Innovations (

http://www.dialinginnovations.com)(physical

location is in the same town as us)
$55/mo per line (probably 30 lines) = $1650/mo
Their custom built switch and router = $1500
1 T1 line (until we expand to need 2) = $300/mo
Cable internet for normal internet usage/redundancy = $60/mo
We can choose any phones we'd like = $5000


On Premise: Star2Star Phone system (

http://www.star2star.com/index.html)

Star2Star License/ports and 2250 Box = $3,292
Phones: Yealink T-38G @ $170x6 = $1,020
Yealink T-22p @ $87.5x40 = $3,500
Star2Star software per phone = $45x42 = $1,890
Cisco SG300-28P switches @ $694x2 = $1,392
Installation: $5,432
Total: $16,836

MONTHLY:
Service from Star2Star = $545
1 T1 line for now = $300
Cable Internet for normal useage/redundancy = $60
Yearly Mainteance = $2,717


Any thoughts or opinions would be great. I've read as many reviews on the hardware and services as I can, but I default to the more knowledgeable users here. The hosted seems pretty straight forward, however the on premise options seem endless and I'm not sure what is industry standard as far as service, cost, etc...Any help would appreciated.

 

[Westi]

as per your post above

- Ability to change outbound caller ID (Only possible with SIP lines or PRI)
(Ideally by pressing a button on the phone to select which outbound area code to select and having up to 3 ppl able to use that same area code at once)
- Caller ID would be nice any system these days does that
- Ability to transfer calls between front desk to sales floor any system since the 70's does that
- Handle approximately 45 users (currently about 30)
- RELIABLE not much to it really as the new electronics are pretty good and if installed properly you should be good

There are many posts like yours asking for advise what to get and everybody recommends their product they work on of course. Also the usual is that you should have a local company that maintains it as that will help in case you are in need of replacement parts even though 90% of all work is done remotely these days a fast access to the physical parts is still important. Also make sure you do not cheap out on a good UPS and backup analog lines (2 or 3 is plenty usually) should your PRI go down.
A lot of companies want reliability and stop with a $10000 server but forget the $50 spare modem for their Internet or the backup DsL lines.

Get a few quotes and have companies demo it on your premises and let them see what you have and talk to them, you will soon know if you talk to a person that has a clue what they talk about or if they just read their own sales manual.
Compare the proposals and not just for price but also if they offer you all the features you want (all you mentioned is pretty much standard on all systems really) and what an expansion would cost if you would need 10 or 20 or 30 more extensions.
VoIP is what all people these days want to go for but not feasible for all companies and you need a more expensive infrastructure for it than for (existing) digital or analog phones.

Read through a bunch of the old posts (a few weeks ago I know where a few of them almost simultaneously) and see if that answers all your questions.



Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

Give a tech a solution and he will be back tomorrow to ask you the next question, teach a tech how to read the manual and he will be able to solve the problems for a life time.

 

[phoneguy610]

Yea link phones??? You get what you pay for

We ripped out a bunch of sip\hosted just because of those yealink phones

Sure they are cheap but boy are they awful

If you are going to go hosted or sip based I'd say Astra and poly com phones are the only ones worth considering

Also look at the avaya ip office (I know I am biased) but it can do all you are asking

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

 

[phoneguy610]

And if you are looking for reliable I'd eliminate hosted out of the gate.

I do believe it is getting there depending on your area and Internet reliability

But expect to go down a few times a year

With a premised based system you could install a pri or sip trunks and also install some back up copper trunks as a failover

This is something you cannot do with hosted
You usually cannot do this with pure ip solutions like star to star either (I don't know anything about that product so don't quote me but something to look into)

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

 

[atcom]

You have close to 50 phones so I'd do some serious inquiring about Avaya's Triple 7 promotion which offers steep discounts for IP Office - you'd probably end up paying about $20,000 for the system and the normal monthly charges for PRI, but you'd have a far better phone system than either of the other 2 options IMHO.

You could also see if there's a reputable installer for FreePBX/asterisk in your area as that would give you a better and more widely supported system than the Star 2 Star system (as far as I know!)

-----------------------------------

Calgary Telephone Systems, Avaya LG Asterisk (FreePBX) VOIP & TDM

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

What's so bad about the Yea-Link phones, I am curious.

****New Forum - E-Metrotel UCx****
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer-"JoetheUCxguy" on Youtube

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856

 

[phoneguy610]

its a $75 ip phone lol

call quality is horrible, they are just overal garbage



ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

 

[atcom]

I wouldn't be too quick to throw Yealink phones under the bus, I've tried a few models with pretty good results. Some vendors swear by them.

Phoneguy - if you ran across a situation where the call quality was terrible it was far more likely due to network issues or a Poor Hosted Provider than the phones.

-----------------------------------

Calgary Telephone Systems, Avaya LG Asterisk (FreePBX) VOIP & TDM

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

I am curious because E-Metrotel swears by them....I personally would rather use old i2004 and i2002 sets over a Yealink phone. (if I had the option for Unistim)

****New Forum - E-Metrotel UCx****
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer-"JoetheUCxguy" on Youtube

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856

 

[telcodog]

EMetroTel is the way to go. Works great and you can use a variety of SIP phones (including Avaya, Cisco and Mitel) and evry Nortel IP set made along with any of the sets that will work on the Norstar/BCM. Price is about half of an IP Office and is way less complicated to deal with. It has all-in licensing so you're not nickel and dimed for all the options....everybody gets everything! It's SIP based so SIP trunks are the way to go but it also handles PRI and analog trunks.

I've worked on PBX's for 40 years and this is one of the nicest systems I've seen in a long time. It is Asterisk based but has been productized by EMEtroTel so you don't have to do any of the development yourself. Treat it just like you would any other manufacturer system.

 

[phoneguy610]

We had 1 customer with a hosted solution they were about to rip out

Swapped the yea link phones with Astra and all their issues regarding call quality disappeared



ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

 

[atcom]

There must have been something else going on - wrong codecs or bad jitter buffer settings, etc.

-----------------------------------

Calgary Telephone Systems, Avaya LG Asterisk (FreePBX) VOIP & TDM

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Telcodog, always a helpful poster!

Wait till a few months from now when you'll be able to also use Aries II M2xxx and Taurus M39xx sets on the UCx! The options cabinets will be able to tie into the UCx. It's under development bow.

In my opinion the m2008 and m2616 were some of the best rugged phones ever designed!



****New Forum - E-Metrotel UCx****
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer-"JoetheUCxguy" on Youtube

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856

 

[telcodog]

GordonKapes,

Thanks, and I know all about it. I am supplying EMetroTel with the CS1K equipment they're using for the testing. Should be all done in a couple of months.

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Telcodog,

I will be one of the people testing the equipment. I do a lot of testing for them. I really wish we could chat about Nortel sometime. Thanks for your help.

Joe


****New Forum - E-Metrotel UCx****
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer-"JoetheUCxguy" on Youtube

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Nevermind about testing, I may not be able to test them on my system though because I don't have any cs1k equipment, only BCM. Ardavan did mention something about getting me an option 11 chassis someday, but it will be a while. I really would like to test out my all time favorite m2616 or M2008 that i had a lot of experience with at Purdue when I worked in the telecom office. I am going to keep watching eBay for an option 11
Mini.

****New Forum - E-Metrotel UCx****
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer-"JoetheUCxguy" on Youtube

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856

 

[tdoom15]

Thanks everyone for replies, I've been trying to read as much as I can and learn as much as I can.

I think I've ruled out the hosted option and would like to stick to a presmise based system. Am I correct in my estimation so far that most systems will handle all the things we want it to do, but may vary in quality.

Here is where I get confused. Once you choose your system, you select your type of service? SIP trunks, PRI, or analog? Who provides this service, is it companies like ATT, Comcast, Star2Star? Obviously you have to have an internet connection (in our case 1xT1 w/ cable as a backup), but how do the calls get out?

I wish I would have more time to make a better decision, but our building will be done in about a month and we are really up against it to get something in ASAP.

The two options we have right now for a system are:

1.) Star2Star as previously mentioned. Can anyone give me more insight to this company and pros/cons? How it works? Etc..

2.) Snom System - From what I understand it is a Linux based system than handles everything w/ snom phones. I've had 2 different and local companies say their product is good and we actually demo'd their phone w/ the hosted solution with no problems for a week. Seemed well built, but again, doesn't seem to be one of the mainstream companies and we didn't get to test their actual system.

If anyone with some knowledge wouldn't mind possibly giving me a call today to share some of their knowledge, it would be greatly appreciated! I'm really under pressure to make a decision today or tomorrow! my cell is 317-710-1697. Thanks again.

-Thomas

 

[atcom]

You are mostly correct about choosing your trunks after you choose your system - most modern systems can handle PRI, SIP, or POTS (analog); although the appropriate cards/licences must be installed on the system.

The two systems you're considering are probably close to equal though I'm personally a little more familiar with Snom. However, I'd still recommend you take a different approach and purchase more of a mainstream brand so that you have more flexibility when it comes to servicing the equipment you own. There's nothing worse than being locked in to a bad vendor, period. Also, there is far more information available on the internet for the mainstream products, etc. Just my $.02

-----------------------------------

Calgary Telephone Systems, Avaya LG Asterisk (FreePBX) VOIP & TDM

 

[phoneguy610]

atcom is right

i am biased to avaya and toshiba, but you may also want to look into (as much as i hate to say it) shoretel, cisco, mitel, and nec

they are all big brand names and offer nice systems

if you want to rule 2 out shoretel, cisco, and mitel are very expensive

NEC i have heard mixed things, some people love it some hate it

avaya has a huge customer base for a good cost. No worry with getting stuck with one vendor and they offer a nice product line

Toshiba also has a very large customer base and i believe their phones are absolutely gorgeous

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel

ACIS

 

[Westi]

people were harping about bad phones in here and I have not tested either of these brands but a big issue is the installer, the company that installs your system should have a good track record of installing systems for a long time (preferably the system they want to install for you) and then also be able to have a couple of happy customers that are available as a reference for them. If they can't provide references just tell them thanks and let them go.
You are under time pressure that is right with a month but that is nothing new for all of us, there is maybe 1 in 10 systems where the customers tell you that they have a lot of time to do it all in due time and the other 9 are in a rush. As long as you get the paperwork processed with them and more important with the line provider it should not be a problem to get the system programmed and installed within a month.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

Give a tech a solution and he will be back tomorrow to ask you the next question, teach a tech how to read the manual and he will be able to solve the problems for a life time.